讲座 - 跨宗教静修

that Divine consciousness, his physical earthly body should be capable to sustain. This body sometime… it is not right to become holy overnight.

那神圣意识，他的物质 earthly 身体应该有能力承受。这个身体有时……一夜之间变得神圣是不对的。

You can become (?) you can’t make any sense to it. People who meditate, you know people just meditate, meditate, elevate the entire energy upward and with that energy your stool sometime can go to the backtrack of the stomach and you get sick and die. I mean this is not what Sikh way of life teaches. It teaches that you go slow. You go royal way; all you have to do is praise the Lord.

你可以变成（？）你没法从中理出任何意义。那些冥想的人，你知道，人们只是冥想、冥想，把整个能量往上提升，带着那股能量，你的粪便有时会倒回到胃里，你就会生病死掉。我的意思是，这不是锡克生活方式所教导的。它教导你慢慢来。你走王者之路；你所要做的一切就是赞美主。

Now there are many ways to praise the Lord, we like every way but one way, which Siri Guru Granth lays repetition of those sutras, like

现在有很多方式赞美主，我们喜欢每一种方式，但有一种方式，是《圣格兰特经》所铺陈的，重复那些经句，比如

“Ek Ong Kar Sat Nam Karta Purkh Nirbhao Nirvair Akal Moorat Ajooni Saibhung…”

“Ek Ong Kar Sat Nam Karta Purkh Nirbhao Nirvair Akal Moorat Ajooni Saibhung……”

one way, which Siri Guru Granth lays repetition of those sutras, like

有一种方式，是《圣格兰特经》所铺陈的，重复那些经句，比如

“Ek Ong Kar Sat Nam Karta Purkh Nirbhao Nirvair Akal Moorat Ajooni Saibhung…”

“Ek Ong Kar Sat Nam Karta Purkh Nirbhao Nirvair Akal Moorat Ajooni Saibhung……”

Now this is a sound. This is foreign to you; it is also foreign to me. What it means is nothing. What it means is everything. There is one Ek Ong Kar-there is a one Creator of the entire creation, Sat Nam-truth is Thy identity, Karta Purkh-you are a being who does it. Nirbhao, Nirvair, you are without fear, without vengeance, it is Gurmukhi. Gurmukhi is the language of Divine people. Gurmukh means one whose face is towards God. So it is Gurmukhi, it was made by Guru Angad the second Guru, it was essential to make it to create that sound effect.

现在这是一个声音。它对你来说是陌生的；它对我也是陌生的。它的意思什么都不是。它的意思是一切。有一个Ek Ong Kar——整个创造有一个创造者，Sat Nam——真理是你的身份，Karta Purkh——你是一个去做的存在。Nirbhao、Nirvair，你无所畏惧、无所报复，它是Gurmukhi。Gurmukhi是神圣之人的语言。Gurmukh的意思是一个面朝神的人。所以它是Gurmukhi，它是由Guru Angad，第二位古茹造出来的，必须造出它，才能创造出那个声音效果。

one whose face is towards God. So it is Gurmukhi, it was made by Guru Angad the second Guru, it was essential to make it to create that sound effect.

一个面朝神的人。所以它是 Gurmukhi，它是由第二位古茹 Guru Angad 创造的，创造它是为了产生那种音声效果，这是必不可少的。

You know sound has powerful effect, it explodes you all fear, if musical thing comes it’s a harmony, so the sound of the word, entire Sikh way of life is based on this one thing what John said in the Bible, “In the beginning there was a word, word was with God and word was God.” Period. Power of the word. Akhar, Akhar, power of the word, you make friends with word, you make enemies with word, prayer is nothing but words, your talking is nothing but word, Christ is my Lord is a word, Christ is my God is a word, I hate Christianity is a word, you can do anything, it is all words. So if you have a purity of word, you are pure. If you have a impurity of word, you are impure.

你知道音声有强大的效果，它会炸开你所有的恐惧，如果是音乐性的东西，那就是一种和谐，所以话语的音声，整个锡克生活方式就建立在这一件事上，就是约翰在《圣经》里说的：「太初有道，道与神同在，道就是神。」就这样。话语的力量。Akhar，Akhar，话语的力量，你用话语交朋友，你用话语树敌人，祈祷不过是话语，你说话不过是话语，「基督是我的主」是话语，「基督是我的神」是话语，「我恨基督教」是话语，你什么都能做，全都是话语。所以如果你的话语是纯净的，你就是纯净的。如果你的话语是不纯净的，你就是不纯净的。

That’s what it depends. There is no big… you know in Christianity, in Judaism, in Islam, in anything there is a reality and there is a ritual. In Sikh way of life you can’t stretch to rituals. There is no scope for rituals.

就取决于这个。没有什么大……你知道在基督教里、在犹太教里、在伊斯兰教里、在任何东西里，都有一个真实，也有一个仪式。在锡克生活方式里，你不能延伸到仪式。仪式没有存在的余地。

“Amrit Vela Sach Naa-O Vadi-Aa-Ee Vichaar.”

「Amrit Vela Sach Naa-O Vadi-Aa-Ee Vichaar。」

and there is a ritual. In Sikh way of life you can’t stretch to rituals. There is no scope for rituals.

而且有一个仪式。在锡克生活方式里，你不能延伸到仪式。仪式没有存在的余地。

“Amrit Vela Sach Naa-O Vadi-Aa-Ee Vichaar.”

「Amrit Vela Sach Naa-O Vadi-Aa-Ee Vichaar。」

Man who gets up early in the morning, before the Sun rises, fools rises when the Sun rises anyway, you get up before the Sun rises, take a clean shower,

清晨早早起床的人，在太阳升起之前，傻瓜反正太阳升起时才起床，你在太阳升起之前起床，洗一个干净的澡，

“Ashaan Daan, Maha Kalyan.”

「Ashaan Daan, Maha Kalyan。」

Get up, take a shower, stimulate your body, cold shower brings the blood out, stimulates your nervous system, you feel good, you sit down and then you recite. Now recitation is not personal. Neither it is impersonal. The whole thing is written in this way, Anand Bhia Meri Maaye, Sat, you know words. Now you can say word Raa, Raa, Raa you can say word Maa, in Maa the lips will meet, in Raa they won’t. So combination of all this nervous system is what which stimulates the brain. Sikh way believes however holy you are, you have nine holes, two eyes, two nostrils, mouth, two ears, urination and elimination, becomes nine.

起床，洗澡，刺激你的身体，冷水澡把血液带出来，刺激你的神经系统，你感觉很好，你坐下来，然后你诵念。现在诵念不是个人的。也不是非个人的。整件事就是这样写的，Anand Bhia Meri Maaye，Sat，你知道那些词。现在你可以说词 Raa、Raa、Raa，你可以说词 Maa，在 Maa 里嘴唇会合上，在 Raa 里它们不会。所以这整个神经系统的组合，就是刺激大脑的东西。锡克之道相信，无论你多么神圣，你都有九个孔，两只眼睛、两个鼻孔、嘴巴、两只耳朵、排尿和排泄，就是九个。

brain. Sikh way believes however holy you are, you have nine holes, two eyes, two nostrils, mouth, two ears, urination and elimination, becomes nine.

大脑。锡克之道相信，无论你多么神圣，你都有九个孔，两只眼睛、两个鼻孔、嘴巴、两只耳朵、排尿和排泄，就是九个。

If these nine holes bring in and bring out what they should bring in and what they bring out you are okay, you are holy. Otherwise you are not. So there is no big hassle what they call is religious hassle, there is no rush, I am going to get holy, there is no such thing, I am holy anyway, I have nine holes, what more? I may need the tenth. Now there is a tenth hole between pineal and pituitary. Pineal is a rock, it's a central part of the brain. It must radiate, on its radiation lies the secretion of the pituitary. When pituitary secretes extra HL(LH), it's a master gland, it makes all other glands secrete and it gives you the state of what you call ecstasy.

如果这九个孔带入和带出它们该带入的、该带出的，你就没问题，你是神圣的。否则你就不是。所以没什么大不了的，他们所谓的宗教麻烦，没什么可急的，我要变得神圣，没有这回事，我本来就是神圣的，我有九个孔，还要什么？我可能还需要第十个。现在松果体和脑垂体之间有个第十个孔。松果体是一块石头，它是大脑的核心部分。它必须辐射，垂体的分泌就依赖于它的辐射。当垂体分泌额外的 HL(LH) 时，它是主腺体，它让所有其他腺体分泌，它给你所谓狂喜的状态。

You start seeing the unseen, knowing the unknown, hearing the unheard. So in other words man becomes intuitive and when you become intuitive you become humble.

你开始看见看不见的，知道未知的，听见听不到的。所以换句话说，人变得有直觉，当你变得有直觉，你就变得谦卑。

seeing the unseen, knowing the unknown, hearing the unheard. So in other words man becomes intuitive and when you become intuitive you become humble.

看见看不见的，知道未知的，听见听不到的。所以换句话说，人变得有直觉，当你变得有直觉，你就变得谦卑。

That’s a one formula… once you become intuitive you become humble because through your intuition you know the doer is doing and you are one of the doing of the doer. Therefore you take the highest attitude of gratitude when you become graceful, God is everything. It’s a joke saying God is in my faith, God is nobody’s faith. They all exploit word God. They sell God, they buy God, they use God, my God, your God, all God, by God, they don’t know what God is, God is love if you (?) So these statements are right there before us and in our life God is our totality, I am not body but I am the body. I am not mind but I am the mind. I am not soul I am the soul. Who am I?

那是一个公式……一旦你变得有直觉，你就变得谦卑，因为透过你的直觉，你知道行动者在行动，而你是行动者行动的一部分。因此当你变得优雅时，你采取最高的感恩态度，神是一切。说神在我的信仰里，是个笑话，神不是任何人的信仰。他们都利用「神」这个词。他们卖神，他们买神，他们用神，我的神，你的神，所有的神，老天爷，他们不知道神是什么，神是爱，如果你（？）所以这些说法就在我们面前，在我们的生活中，神是我们的全部，我不是身体，但我是身体。我不是心智，但我是心智。我不是灵魂，我是灵魂。我是谁？

I am the cause of these three together. Because if you are out of mind your soul is beautiful, your body is beautiful, you are a nut. If your body is terrible, your mind is perfect, your soul you can’t do a thing.

我是这三者合一的原因。因为如果你失去心智，你的灵魂是美丽的，你的身体是美丽的，你是个疯子。如果你的身体很糟，你的心智完美，你的灵魂，你什么也做不了。

of mind your soul is beautiful, your body is beautiful, you are a nut. If your body is terrible, your mind is perfect, your soul you can’t do a thing.

失去心智，你的灵魂是美丽的，你的身体是美丽的，你是个疯子。如果你的身体很糟，你的心智完美，你的灵魂，你什么也做不了。

If your soul is corrupted, doesn’t hold you, your mind is fantastic, your body is fantastic, all you do is weird things. But are you all these three… now you are beyond this because Creator the Infinite has experienced through the finite, law of polarity. So in that Christ consciousness or in that Infinity of experience of God or in that reality of wisdom, Sikh way of life takes a person to that basic experience, that basic joy, pure.

如果你的灵魂被腐蚀了，撑不住你，你的心智棒极了，你的身体棒极了，你所做的全是怪事。但你是这三者吗……现在你超越了这个，因为无限的造物主透过有限来体验，极性法则。所以在那个基督意识里，或在神那无限的经验里，或在那个智慧的实相里，锡克的生活方式把人带到那个根本的经验，那个根本的喜悦，纯净。

Sikh seeks to become Khalsa, pure and pure is a pure whether pure is a Christian or a Jew or a Buddhist or a Muslim or a Bahai or a Sufi or a Shia or a Sunni, pure, valley of the Saint is the valley of the Saints and there goes no hanky-panky, there goes only saints. In valley of the saints only saints will be. That’s all it is about. No politics, no power.

锡克教徒追求成为卡尔萨，纯净，纯净就是纯净，无论纯净是基督徒、犹太人、佛教徒、穆斯林、巴哈伊、苏菲、什叶派还是逊尼派，纯净，圣徒的谷地就是圣徒的谷地，那里没有勾心斗角，那里只有圣徒。在圣徒的谷地里，只有圣徒才能存在。这就是全部。没有政治，没有权力。

Guru Nanak says,

Guru Nanak 说，

“Aakhan Jor Chupai Neh Jor, Jor Naa Mangan Dayn Naa Jor, Jor Naa Raaj Maal Man Sor, Jor Naa Surtee Gi-Aan Veechaar, Jor Naa Jugtee Chhutai Sansaar, Jis Hath Jor Kar Vaykhai So-I, Nanak Uttam Neech Na Koye.”

“Aakhan Jor Chupai Neh Jor, Jor Naa Mangan Dayn Naa Jor, Jor Naa Raaj Maal Man Sor, Jor Naa Surtee Gi-Aan Veechaar, Jor Naa Jugtee Chhutai Sansaar, Jis Hath Jor Kar Vaykhai So-I, Nanak Uttam Neech Na Koye。”

Jor Naa Raaj Maal Man Sor, Jor Naa Surtee Gi-Aan Veechaar, Jor Naa Jugtee Chhutai Sansaar, Jis Hath Jor Kar Vaykhai So-I, Nanak Uttam Neech Na Koye.”

Jor Naa Raaj Maal Man Sor, Jor Naa Surtee Gi-Aan Veechaar, Jor Naa Jugtee Chhutai Sansaar, Jis Hath Jor Kar Vaykhai So-I, Nanak Uttam Neech Na Koye。”

No power to say, no power to speak, no power to hear, no, no, no, no power, no power. All right, if somebody has power let us praise. What power? Fifteen times a minute God loves you and you damn about it. Fifteen breaths a minute on average you breathe, it means the infinite power of living creativity sends you to kiss you fifteen times per minute and you do not even thank Him ten times a minute. That is the average situation in this era. Therefore creatively man not loves God, man just denies God. Who wants to find God? God is already with me. In His… when we say God is everywhere…

没有力量说，没有力量讲，没有力量听，没有，没有，没有，没有力量，没有力量。好吧，如果有人有力量，让我们赞美。什么力量？每分钟 15 次，神爱着你，你却对此毫不在意。你平均每分钟呼吸 15 次，这意味着无限的活生生的创造力每分钟送你 15 个吻，而你连每分钟感谢祂 10 次都做不到。这就是这个年代的平均状况。所以，人不是创造性地爱神，人只是在否认神。谁想找到神？神已经和我在一起了。在祂的……当我们说神无处不在……

funny religion, everybody says God is everywhere, so God is everywhere then why the hell you are trying to find Him? When something is everywhere, somebody said ‘where is God?’ I said, ‘where is policeman?’ Cross the red light and you will see teeteeteeteeee after you. It will appear. Where is government? Nowhere. Where is government? Everywhere.

可笑的宗教，每个人都说神无处不在，那么神无处不在，那你到底为什么还要去找祂？当某样东西无处不在时，有人说「神在哪里？」我说，「警察在哪里？」闯过红灯，你就会看到 teeteeteeteeee 跟在你后面。它会出现。政府在哪里？哪里都不在。政府在哪里？无处不在。

Cross the red light and you will see teeteeteeteeee after you. It will appear. Where is government? Nowhere. Where is government? Everywhere.

闯过红灯，你就会看到 teeteeteeteeee 跟在你后面。它会出现。政府在哪里？哪里都不在。政府在哪里？无处不在。

There is seen in every unseen, there is unseen in every seen, every seen is because of the unseen, every unseen is because of the seen and this reality has to be experienced and once you experience that reality then you do not become cause and effect. Then you become neutral and that is called equilibrium. Once the consciousness reaches the stage of equilibrium then you get out of the cause and effect and that is what every religious person seeks to be that I should have equilibrium of mind, it goes this way, it goes this way. You can put it in many words and you can put in any word, it comes to exactly the same thing. Devil. What is a devil? You write it, how you spell it? D E V I L.

在每一个看不见之中，都能看见；在每一个看得见之中，都有看不见。每一个看得见，都是因为那看不见；每一个看不见，都是因为那看得见。这个实相必须被体验，一旦你体验了那个实相，你就不再是因果。那时你变得中性，那就叫平衡。一旦意识到达平衡的阶段，你就脱离了因果，而这就是每一个宗教人士所追求的——我应当有心的平衡，它往这边走，它往那边走。你可以用很多词来说它，你可以用任何词来说它，说到底都是同一件事。魔鬼。什么是魔鬼？你写出来，你怎么拼？D E V I L。

I spell it differently, DE-W I double L. De-will, when you don’t have the will you are a devil anyway. You can fall into temptation. What is a will? When you take the W off you are ill, without will. I mean to say spell them differently for the convenience of your writing but the sound Shabad, sound is what it means.

我拼得不一样，DE-W I double L。De-will，当你没有意志（will）的时候，你反正就是个魔鬼。你会落入诱惑。什么是意志？把 W 拿掉，你就是 ill（病），没有意志。我的意思是，为了方便你书写，你可以把它们拼得不一样，但声音——Shabd，声音才是它的意思。

off you are ill, without will. I mean to say spell them differently for the convenience of your writing but the sound Shabad, sound is what it means.

把 W 拿掉，你就是 ill（病），没有意志。我的意思是，为了方便你书写，你可以把它们拼得不一样，但声音——Shabd，声音才是它的意思。

I was just talking to somebody, God, E G O ego, G O D God, take away the D, take away the E, in between is go-go. You are all gogos. But if you look to your E the essence and D the destiny you have the dignity, then you have the Divinity, you have the Divinity you have the essence; you have the essence you have the destiny, you made it. And highest religion of the religion is when a human is a human, what is a human. Hue-Mann-Being. Hue means now, Mann means mind, Hue means aura. Hue means hue, halo, the light. You are light of God.

我刚才在跟一个人说话，God，E G O 小我，G O D 神，把 D 拿掉，把 E 拿掉，中间就是 go-go。你们全是 gogo。但如果你看向你的 E——本质（essence），和 D——天命（destiny），你就有尊严（dignity），然后你就有神性（Divinity）；你有神性，你就有本质；你有本质，你就有天命，你成了。而宗教中最高的宗教，就是当一个人成为人。什么是人？Hue-Mann-Being。Hue 意思是当下，Mann 意思是心智，Hue 意思是能量圈。Hue 意思是色调、能量圈、光。你是神的光。

And you all find God when you find a good man who does good to you, who saves you, who is compassionate to you, you say, ‘oh my God, so and so is just Divine to me.’ That’s what the expression. And the mantra we use is Wahe Guru.

而你们都是在找到一个对你好、救你、对你慈悲的好人时，才找到神，你说：「哦我的神，某某对我来说就是神圣的。」这就是那个表达。而我们用的曼陀罗是 Wahe Guru, Whaa‑hay Guroo。

who is compassionate to you, you say, ‘oh my God, so and so is just Divine to me.’ That’s what the expression. And the mantra we use is Wahe Guru.

对你慈悲的人，你说：「哦我的神，某某对我来说就是神圣的。」这就是那个表达。而我们用的曼陀罗是 Wahe Guru, Whaa‑hay Guroo。

Wah, Wah, Wah, Sat Nam is Infinity, truth is my name and it is five words, Sa Ta Na Ma. The knowledge, the patience, the creativity, the communication. The spirit of knowledge, the tolerance, and then creativity and then resurrection. These are sounds, there are twenty sounds, there are twenty sacred sounds on which everything is based. Seven, harmonious, four healing, no… seven harmonious, five Infinite, four healing, and fourth (?). It becomes twenty. Saa Ree Gaa Maa… you know the Indian music.

Wah，Wah，Wah，Sat Nam 就是无限，真理是我的名字，它是五个词，Sa Ta Na Ma。知识、耐心、创造力、沟通。知识的精神、包容，然后是创造力，然后是复活。这些都是音，一共有二十个音，有二十个神圣的音，一切都建立在这上面。七个和谐音，四个疗愈音，不……七个和谐音，五个无限音，四个疗愈音，还有第四个（？）。加起来就是二十。Saa Ree Gaa Maa……你知道印度音乐。

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

no… seven harmonious, five Infinite, four healing, and fourth (?). It becomes twenty. Saa Ree Gaa Maa… you know the Indian music.

不……七个和谐音，五个无限音，四个疗愈音，还有第四个（？）。加起来就是二十。Saa Ree Gaa Maa……你知道印度音乐。

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: But these are the basic that harmony is called Saa Ree Gaa Maa Paa Dhaa Nee, Saa Ree Gaa Maa Paa Dhaa Nee. Seven, to create harmony. Ra Ma Da Sa. In between the Infinity, Sa Ta Na Ma, Saa Ree Gaa Maa Paa Dhaa Nee, Sa Ta Na Ma, Ra Ma Da Sa, Sa Sey Sohung. The total comes twenty. Out of which these are the five that word we call it, word, Sat Nam the word. Infinite is God, truth is my identity, but it is sound, as G O D is a sound. So exactly that is the sound, Sa Ta Na Ma. Sa means totality, creativity of the Creator. Ta means Ta, Ta means heat, Ta means light, Ta means fire, Ta means (?), Ta means Moon, everything is fire, everything is fire, heat, light.

Yogiji：但这些是基础，那和谐就叫 Saa Ree Gaa Maa Paa Dhaa Nee，Saa Ree Gaa Maa Paa Dhaa Nee。七个，用来创造和谐。Ra Ma Da Sa。在无限中间，Sa Ta Na Ma，Saa Ree Gaa Maa Paa Dhaa Nee，Sa Ta Na Ma，Ra Ma Da Sa，Sa Sey Sohung。总共就是二十。其中这五个，那个词我们叫它词，Sat Nam 这个词。无限是神，真理是我的身份，但它是音，就像 G O D 是一个音。所以正是那个音，Sa Ta Na Ma。Sa 意味着整体，造物主的创造力。Ta 意味着 Ta，Ta 意味着热，Ta 意味着光，Ta 意味着火，Ta 意味着（？），Ta 意味着月亮，一切都是火，一切都是火、热、光。

Guest: (?) in the ancient language is written by the…

来宾：（？）在古代语言里是由……写下的

Yogiji: Yeah, it is a ancient, it is called sacred and secret logo.

Yogiji：是的，它是古老的，它被称为神圣而秘密的标志。

Guest: Of what? Why Sikhs have supplicated it that way and it doesn’t reach as many people.

来宾：什么的？为什么锡克教徒那样祈求它，而它却没有传到那么多人那里。

Yogiji: Well, question is it is not reaching any people. As Guru Nanak brought it again, people forgot it under rituals.

Yogiji：嗯，问题是它没有传到任何人那里。当 Guru Nanak 再次把它带来时，人们在仪式中把它忘了。

Guest: To me (?) small child has…

来宾：对我来说（？）小孩子有……

Well, question is it is not reaching any people. As Guru Nanak brought it again, people forgot it under rituals.

嗯，问题是它没有传到任何人那里。当 Guru Nanak 再次把它带来时，人们在仪式中把它忘了。

Guest: To me (?) small child has…

来宾：对我来说（？）小孩子有……

Yogiji: Yeah, but you have to basically understand, open your Jewish shelf, see, you will get it.

Yogiji：是的，但你基本上必须明白，打开你的犹太书架，看，你就会得到它。

Guest: I don’t feel I am Sikh and I don’t feel any sound and I feel this is small (?) just a natural, there is a natural (?) complicated, so if you complicate God and it's something (?) you have a really general feeling towards (?) to me (?) feel complicated.

来宾：我不觉得自己是锡克教徒，我也感觉不到任何音，我觉得这很小（？）只是自然的，有一种自然的（？）复杂，所以如果你把神弄复杂，它就是某种（？）你对我有一种很笼统的感觉（？）觉得复杂。

Yogiji: Yeah, you must understand from every simplicity there is a complexity, if you are innocent things are all simple to you and if you are faking to be innocent things are really very complicated.

Yogiji：是的，你必须明白，每一种简单里都有复杂，如果你是纯真的，一切对你来说都很简单；如果你假装纯真，一切就真的非常复杂。

Guest: Well, this is true, but I think (?) I don’t know God is a very logical (?) person, He doesn’t complicate life.

客人：嗯，这是真的，但我想（？）我不知道神是一个非常讲逻辑的（？）存在，他不会把生活搞复杂。

Yogiji: You don’t think this destruction is because of not God? Evil is not because of God?

Yogiji：你不觉得这种毁灭不是因为神吗？邪恶不是因为神吗？

Guest: Well, I think lot of it happens…

客人：嗯，我觉得很多事发生……

Yogiji: No, no, listen. You can’t believe in one thing and deny the same thing. You can’t do that. You can’t be a disciple and then deny the master.

Yogiji：不，不，听着。你不能相信一件事，又否认同一件事。你不能那样做。你不能做了弟子，然后又否认古茹。

Guest: I am not denying that…

客人：我没有否认那个……

believe in one thing and deny the same thing. You can’t do that. You can’t be a disciple and then deny the master.

相信一件事，又否认同一件事。你不能那样做。你不能做了弟子，然后又否认古茹。

Guest: I am not denying that…

客人：我没有否认那个……

Yogiji: No, you are… wait, I would like to explain to you it will hurt you little bit but it is for your good self. You cannot say in one word that God is everything and then on the other word you say God does discrimination. You can’t do that.

Yogiji：不，你就是……等等，我想跟你解释一下，这会让你有点难受，但这是为你好。你不能一句话说神就是一切，另一句话又说神有分别心。你不能那样做。

Guest: I am not saying that.

客人：我没那么说。

Yogiji: But when you say that God allows certain evil and devil, we don’t say that. We say God is good and God is bad. God is great and God is small. God is Infinite God is finite. It's a law of polarity, God is unknown, God is known.

Yogiji：但当你说神允许某些邪恶和魔鬼存在时，我们不会那么说。我们说神是好的，神也是坏的。神是伟大的，神也是渺小的。神是无限的，神也是有限的。这是二元对立的法则，神是未知的，神也是已知的。

Guest: What do you mean by that?

客人：你这话是什么意思？

Guest: Yeah that’s…

客人：对，那是……

is small. God is Infinite God is finite. It's a law of polarity, God is unknown, God is known.

是渺小的。神是无限的，神也是有限的。这是二元对立的法则，神是未知的，神也是已知的。

Guest: What do you mean by that?

客人：你这话是什么意思？

Guest: Yeah that’s…

客人：对，那是……

Yogiji: You have to see the play of God in everything and you are willing to say positive side of it and you do not want to face the negative side of it. But when your mind grows beyond this then neither the positive nor the negative bothers you. It all looks like a play of God and you enjoy it like as you see in a movie you see the movie. But you see some people sitting in the movie start crying when a emotional scene happens others don’t because they get merged with that movie and they totally get emotional with it and they become totally part of it.

Yogiji：你必须在一切之中看见神的游戏，你愿意说它正面的一面，却不愿面对它负面的一面。但当你的心智成长到超越这一点时，正面和负面都不再困扰你。一切看起来都像是神的游戏，你享受它，就像你看电影一样。但你看到有些人坐在电影院里，一到情绪化的场景就开始哭，别人却不哭，因为他们和那部电影融为一体了，他们完全被它带着走情绪，他们完全成了它的一部分。

scene happens others don’t because they get merged with that movie and they totally get emotional with it and they become totally part of it.

场景发生时，别人却不哭，因为他们和那部电影融为一体了，他们完全被它带着走情绪，他们完全成了它的一部分。

They don’t become observer of it, actually as a consciousness we humans are supposed to observe this Maya, this game, this play of negative and positive, these are two (?) positive will always have negative. But the circuit is complete and then there shall be light. Once there is a light then you see everything, what is happening and see that happening as a play of God. Not as your play. I have found it. I have found nothing, God gave it to me. I couldn’t find it because God has not yet given. Everything once is dedicated to the one who created me, I become His true creation. And it is a state of mind.

他们不会成为它的观察者，实际上作为意识，我们人类本应观察这个幻象（Maya）、这场游戏、这场正与负的戏码，这两者（？）正面永远会有负面。但回路完整了，然后就会有光。一旦有了光，你就能看见一切，看见正在发生什么，并把那发生看作神的游戏。不是你的游戏。我找到了它。我什么也没找到，是神给我的。我找不到，因为神还没有给。一旦一切都献给创造我的那一位，我就成了祂真正的创造。它是一种心智状态。

Guest: I think it (?) on words.

来宾：我觉得它（？）在字眼上。

Guest: Right, right.

来宾：对，对。

is dedicated to the one who created me, I become His true creation. And it is a state of mind.

献给创造我的那一位，我就成了祂真正的创造。它是一种心智状态。

Guest: I think it (?) on words.

来宾：我觉得它（？）在字眼上。

Guest: Right, right.

来宾：对，对。

Guest: I now have to say one thing. Each face has a complexity to an outsider regarding its doctrines, that’s like trying to explain the Trinity to people as you are saying this is monotheism. This becomes very complex to many people and we… just simple that’s all. Each face has complexity in the start I think you pointed that out almost. And he is using (?) foreign words and you know the language and all that makes it difficult.

来宾：我现在得说一件事。每个面向对外人来说都有其教义上的复杂性，就像你想向人解释三位一体，而你说这是一神论。这对很多人来说变得非常复杂，而我们……就是简单，仅此而已。每个面向在开始时都有复杂性，我想你几乎已经指出了这一点。而且他在用（？）外来词，你懂那语言，所有这些都让它变得困难。

Guest: I think it's complex when the person chooses to the (?) but I still think that God (?) something that works like a natural (?) that he did not mean it to be complicated, so it has to be educative to understand the (?). I think when (?) that was his simplicity in his love and himself his relation with people and when you get it so complex that people don’t understand it and they push away from it.

来宾：我觉得当人选择（？）时它就复杂了，但我仍然觉得神（？）某种像自然（？）一样运作的东西，祂本无意让它变得复杂，所以它必须是有教育意义的，才能理解（？）。我觉得当（？）那是祂在爱中的单纯，祂自己与人的关系，而当你把它弄得复杂到人们无法理解，他们就会把它推开。

Guest: He is sharing with you some of the complexity but it's also very simple religion. You know…

来宾：他在跟你分享一些复杂性，但它也是非常简单的宗教。你知道……

Yogiji: I mean you are just if you are hung up on one thing it is your fate.

Yogiji：我的意思是，如果你只纠结在一件事上，那就是你的命。

Guest: I don’t feel I have…

来宾：我不觉得我……

it's also very simple religion. You know…

它也是非常简单的宗教。你知道……

Yogiji: I mean you are just if you are hung up on one thing it is your fate.

Yogiji：我的意思是，如果你只纠结在一件事上，那就是你的命。

Guest: I don’t feel I have…

来宾：我不觉得我……

Yogiji: No, no, my simplicity is very simple thing. What Christ thought, Christ taught, what Buddha thought, Buddha taught. What Mohammad thought, Mohammad taught. They all taught a truth, whosoever lives it gets it. To me it is no complication.

Yogiji：不，不，我的简单是非常简单的事。基督想了什么，基督就教了什么；佛陀想了什么，佛陀就教了什么；穆罕默德想了什么，穆罕默德就教了什么。他们都教了一个真理，谁活出它，谁就得到它。对我来说这毫不复杂。

Guest: There is no complications to me either.

来宾：对我来说也没有复杂之处。

Yogiji: But when you say I am making it complicated or according to me it is complicated. I agree with you because once you have been blessed with a simplicity everything else must look complicated. And it is a state of mind to which you must be grateful, I don’t say to you that anything other than that simplicity, which you have found should look simpler than that.

Yogiji：但你说我把它弄复杂了，或者按你的说法，它很复杂。我同意你的看法，因为一旦你被赐予了简单，其他一切看起来都必然是复杂的。这是一种心智状态，你必须对此心怀感激。我不是对你说，除了你找到的那份简单之外，别的什么应该看起来比它更简单。

Guest: I don’t find it simple but I think the approach has to be somewhat you can and I think…

客人：我不觉得它简单，但我认为方法得是某种你能做到的，而且我觉得……

which you have found should look simpler than that.

你找到的那份简单，别的什么应该看起来比它更简单。

Guest: I don’t find it simple but I think the approach has to be somewhat you can and I think…

客人：我不觉得它简单，但我认为方法得是某种你能做到的，而且我觉得……

Yogiji: This is where you stand. Now that is your stand, no other stand shall be that stand. I am not playing with words, I am not playing words. I am giving a statement of consciousness. Once you stand on a stand, that is your stand and every other stand either should you seek or you should deny and that is…

Yogiji：这就是你所站的位置。那是你的立场，没有别的立场能成为那个立场。我不是在玩文字游戏，我不是在玩弄字眼。我是在陈述一种意识状态。一旦你站在一个立场上，那就是你的立场，其他每一个立场，要么你该去追寻，要么你该去否定，那就是……

Guest: I am trying, I don’t… I feel that…

客人：我在努力，我不……我觉得……

Yogiji: No, no my dear, honey, you are not sitting here to buy and sell anything you must understand that. I am not asking your advise, you are getting into like a what they call it you know really into it… I am not, what I am trying to say is you don’t buy anything, you don’t sell anything.

Yogiji：不，不，亲爱的，甜心，你坐在这里不是为了买卖什么东西，你必须明白这一点。我不是在征求你的建议，你正在陷入一种，他们怎么说的，你知道，真的陷进去了……我不是，我想说的是，你什么都不买，你什么都不卖。

Guest: No, no and I…

客人：不，不，而我……

Yogiji: And you must understand… you are… neither you accept nor you deny. That is what you understand of. You need not accept, you need not deny because you must understand whatever is the state of consciousness you are, you are and that is what you are.

Yogiji：而且你必须明白……你……你既不接受，也不否认。这就是你所理解的。你不需要接受，你不需要否认，因为你必须明白，无论你处于什么意识状态，你就是你，那就是你。

You need not accept, you need not deny because you must understand whatever is the state of consciousness you are, you are and that is what you are.

你不需要接受，你不需要否认，因为你必须明白，无论你处于什么意识状态，你就是你，那就是你。

Guest: I feel myself as a servant of God, that I want to do His will, right? And I am not very complicated for people around me. It’s (?) find God by me serving them that’s it. I mean everybody…

客人：我觉得自己是神的仆人，我想行祂的意志，对吧？而且对周围的人而言我并不复杂。是通过我服务他们来找到神，就这样。我是说每个人……

Yogiji: Oho wait a minute, what that means to you?

Yogiji：哦，等一下，那对你意味着什么？

Guest: What that means to me?

客人：那对我意味着什么？

Yogiji: Yeah.

Yogiji：对。

Guest: Exactly (?) that I find God in the people around me.

客人：确切地说，我在周围的人身上找到神。

Yogiji: You find God, people around you and around you there can be complicated people, simple people, idiots, wise, holy, unholy, brave, small… but you see in everything the same God, do you see that?

Yogiji：你在周围的人身上找到神，而你周围可能有复杂的人、简单的人、白痴、智者、圣洁的、不圣洁的、勇敢的、渺小的……但你在一切之中看到同一个神，你看到那个了吗？

Guest: Right, right!

客人：对，对！

Yogiji: After having that experience you should see nothing and everything else should look complex to you.

Yogiji：有了那个体验之后，你应该什么都看不见，其他一切对你来说都应该显得复杂。

Guest: I (?) very simple that way.

客人：我在这方面非常简单。

Yogiji: You are denying something because I should tell you is that once you find simplicity everything… it's a law of polarity you can’t deny that. Once you find simplicity everything else is a complex.

Yogi Bhajan：你在否认某样东西，因为我该告诉你的是，一旦你找到简单，其他一切……这是极性法则，你无法否认。一旦你找到简单，其他一切都是复杂的。

Guest: I find life (?).

客人：我发现生活（？）。

simplicity everything… it's a law of polarity you can’t deny that. Once you find simplicity everything else is a complex.

简单，其他一切……这是极性法则，你无法否认。一旦你找到简单，其他一切都是复杂的。

Guest: I find life (?).

客人：我发现生活（？）。

YB: Oho that’s nothing, that’s just a Karm Yoga those who seek God through service they seek God through service. Those who seek God through knowledge they seek God through knowledge, those who seek God through Gian, Tapa, Bhagti, Yoga, there are (?).

Yogi Bhajan：哦，那不算什么，那只是业瑜伽（Karma Yoga），那些通过服务寻求神的人，他们通过服务寻求神。那些通过知识寻求神的人，他们通过知识寻求神，那些通过智慧（Gian）、苦行（Tapa）、奉爱（Bhagti）、瑜伽寻求神的人，有（？）。

Guest: And I know I am not seeking. I am telling you I just found my God and I come to adore, and that’s…

客人：我知道我不是在寻求。我告诉你，我只是找到了我的神，我来崇拜，那就是……

Yogiji: If you have found God then you have found God.

Yogi Bhajan：如果你找到了神，那你就找到了神。

Guest: That’s right.

客人：没错。

Yogiji: And that is your state.

Yogi Bhajan：那就是你的状态。

Guest: And He is very good to me.

客人：他对我很好。

Yogiji: He is good to you. He is good to you and you recognize it.

Yogi Bhajan：他对你很好。他对你很好，而且你认出了这一点。

Guest: And I would like to share that word with my fellow men and still I do.

客人：我想和我的同胞分享这句话，而且我确实在这样做。

Yogiji: You want to share that with your fellow men and you do. What else?

Yogi Bhajan：你想和你的同胞分享，而且你确实在这样做。还有什么？

Guest: I am very… I am positive on this thing.

客人：我非常……我对这件事很正面。

Yogiji: You are also negative on something.

Yogi Bhajan：你对某件事也是负面的。

Guest: Not to many.

客人：对不多。

Yogiji: That’s what law of polarity is, once you become positive to something you have to become negative to something.

Yogi Bhajan：这就是极性法则，一旦你对某件事变得正面，你就必须对某件事变得负面。

Guest: Why?

客人：为什么？

Yogiji: Because for every good there is a evil, it can balance.

Yogi Bhajan：因为每一个善都有恶，它可以平衡。

become positive to something you have to become negative to something.

对某件事变得正面，你就必须对某件事变得负面。

Guest: Why?

客人：为什么？

Yogiji: Because for every good there is a evil, it can balance.

Yogi Bhajan：因为每一个善都有恶，它可以平衡。

Guest: That’s what you say. That’s what you say, I don’t believe that and I have lot of friends who will say well I can (?).

客人：那是你说的。那是你说的，我不相信，我有很多朋友会说，好吧，我可以（？）。

Yogiji: You mean for every day there is no night?

Yogi Bhajan：你的意思是每个白天都没有黑夜？

Guest: Well, that’s a different situation.

客人：嗯，那是另一回事。

Yogiji: You mean for every good there is no bad?

Yogi Bhajan：你的意思是每个善都没有恶？

Guest: No, I don’t buy that.

客人：不，我不买这个。

Yogiji: The problem with you is that you want to buy or deny something. I am not buying anything I am not denying anything.

Yogi Bhajan：你的问题在于你想买或否认某样东西。我不买任何东西，我也不否认任何东西。

Guest: You are saying good and bad so you are buying and denying, you are balancing…

客人：你在说善和恶，所以你在买和否认，你在平衡……

Yogiji: I am just saying it because this is a reality. I am saying there is a day there is a night. There is a Sun, there is a Moon. There is up there is a down. These are called factual realities because this is what we deal. Where the complexity in religion is when you buy and deny. You want, I am a Christian, so nothing else. I am this nothing else. I am a Sikh nothing else. And that is what we in ourself limit ourself.

Yogi Bhajan：我只是在说它，因为这是现实。我说有白天就有黑夜。有太阳，就有月亮。有上就有下。这些被称为事实现实，因为这就是我们面对的。宗教里的复杂之处，就在于你买和否认。你想，我是基督徒，所以别的都不要。我是这个，别的都不要。我是锡克教徒，别的都不要。而那就是我们在自己里面限制自己。

Guest: What when you say nothing else, what you are saying is saying…

客人：那当你说「别无其他」的时候，你所说的就是……

else. I am a Sikh nothing else. And that is what we in ourself limit ourself.

其他。我是一个锡克教徒，别无其他。而这正是我们在自己身上限制了自己。

Guest: What when you say nothing else, what you are saying is saying…

客人：那当你说「别无其他」的时候，你所说的就是……

Yogiji: What you are saying is I have found my God! But just wait, somebody must have also found the God because there is a one God. But when you say I have found my God then he has found his God. We have found our God. Then how many Gods are there?

Yogiji：你所说的是：我找到了我的神！但先等等，一定也有人找到了神，因为神只有一个。可当你说「我找到了我的神」，那他就找到了他的神，我们找到了我们的神。那到底有多少个神？

Guest: This is strange, one God!

客人：这就奇怪了，一个神！

Yogiji: So?

Yogiji：所以呢？

Guest: So why do you seek a God have you not found the God, which you worship, that you say your prayers to, have you not found this God? You don’t know Him as a person?

客人：那你为什么还要寻找一个神？你难道没有找到你所敬拜、你向之祈祷的那个神吗？你难道没有找到这个神吗？你不把他当作一个人来认识吗？

seek a God have you not found the God, which you worship, that you say your prayers to, have you not found this God? You don’t know Him as a person?

寻找一个神？你难道没有找到你所敬拜、你向之祈祷的那个神吗？你难道没有找到这个神吗？你不把他当作一个人来认识吗？

Yogiji: But do you know that not that perhaps God has found me. Hazrath Ibrahim was sitting and one morning he found an angel and he was writing a list, he saw the light, he said, “Who is this?” He said, “I am Gabriel.” He said, “What are you doing here?” He said, “I am writing the list of those who love God.” He said, “Very good opportunity, is my name there?” He said, “No.” And after a while next day, he found again and he said, “What are you doing today?” He said, “I am making list of those whom God loves.” He said, “Is my name there?” He said, “You are the only name, nobody else.” So you have found your God, perhaps God has found somebody too. I am not saying that God is limited.

Yogiji：可你知不知道，也许不是这样——也许是神找到了我。哈兹拉特·易卜拉欣坐着，一天早晨他看见一位天使，正在写一份名单，他看见了那道光，就问：「你是谁？」天使说：「我是加百列。」他说：「你在这里做什么？」天使说：「我在写那些爱神之人的名单。」他说：「好机会，我的名字在上面吗？」天使说：「没有。」过了一会儿，第二天，他又看见了，就问：「你今天在做什么？」天使说：「我在列那些神所爱之人的名单。」他说：「我的名字在上面吗？」天使说：「只有你一个名字，别无他人。」所以，你找到了你的神，也许神也找到了某个人。我不是说神是有限的。

He said, “You are the only name, nobody else.” So you have found your God, perhaps God has found somebody too. I am not saying that God is limited.

天使说：「只有你一个名字，别无他人。」所以，你找到了你的神，也许神也找到了某个人。我不是说神是有限的。

God is limited in the finite state and God is unlimited in the Infinite state. Therefore this statement of love that God is love that is where we seek nothing. When we fall in love our whole motivation, our concentration, our meditation, our diversion, our situation that goes into it. And that is in many religions this difficulty has happened. In most of the religion this difficulty you will find evident.

神在有限的状态里是有限的，神在无限的状态里是无限的。因此，那句关于爱的话——神就是爱——正是在那里，我们别无所求。当我们坠入爱河，我们全部的动机、我们的专注、我们的冥想、我们的转向、我们的处境，全都投了进去。而正是在这一点上，许多宗教都出了这个难题。在大多数宗教里，你都会明显看到这个难题。

Guest: So don’t you have known your God as a first thing as personal God and I should love Him…

客人：那你难道不是首先把神认作一位有位格的神，而我就应该爱他……

Yogiji: Every personal God…

Yogiji：每一位有位格的神……

Guest: You don’t know them, right?

客人：你并不认识他们，对吧？

Yogiji: Yeah, that’s okay you must know the personal and the impersonal of God.

Yogiji：对，那没关系，你必须认识神的有位格的一面，也要认识他无位格的一面。

Guest: So you can’t love Him. And much you love Him you want to serve Him.

客人：那你就没法爱他。你越爱他，就越想服务他。

Guest: Why you have to know someone to love him?

客人：为什么你非得认识一个人，才能爱他？

Guest: It is because you can’t unlike what you (?) you see someone and you know you don’t love him, I mean you have to really know a person to love him and I think it is (?) that you love. You really have to know something about…

客人：那是因为你没法不喜欢你（？）你看到一个人，你知道你不爱他，我的意思是你必须真正了解一个人才能爱他，我觉得你爱的是（？）。你真的得了解一些关于……

Yogiji: You cannot love an unknown?

Yogiji：你无法爱一个未知的人？

to really know a person to love him and I think it is (?) that you love. You really have to know something about…

要真正了解一个人才能爱他，我觉得你爱的是（？）。你真的得了解一些关于……

Yogiji: You cannot love an unknown?

Yogiji：你无法爱一个未知的人？

Guest: (?) just seeing what someone has done?

客人：（？）只是看到某人做了什么？

Guest: This is not person, I mean a person…

客人：这不是人，我的意思是，一个人……

Guest: Having your sense of being and recognizing for instance I am just saying, I am not like but I was just wondering whether just a issue that you must know someone to love him. Only that point I am wondering it maybe possible to love let’s say God did you feel it’s in the Creator of you and life as it is and elements within life and feel it sort of a…

客人：拥有你的存在感，并且认出，比如说，我只是在说，我不是那样，但我只是在想，是不是一定得了解一个人才能爱他。我只是在琢磨这一点，也许可以爱，比如说神，你是否觉得，爱的是你的创造者，以及生命本来的样子，以及生命中的种种元素，并且感觉它有点像……

Guest: It's an (?) through the… through the channel denying them, I just…

客人：它是一个（？）通过……通过那个渠道否认它们，我只是……

Guest: You are knowing something about…

客人：你在了解一些关于……

Yogiji: You are knowing God (?).

Yogiji：你在了解神（？）。

Guest: But knowing Him is so fast that I think most people would hesitate to say that I don’t say I know God but I have an intense feeling of love for whatever the idea of God is. Intense and I don’t claim I know God because I think God is so much more than…

客人：但了解祂太快了，我想大多数人会犹豫说，我不说我知道神，但我对神这个概念有一种强烈的爱。很强烈，我不声称我知道神，因为我觉得神远远不止……

Guest: And it's so true what the rabbi was (?) today was a personal God, there is a person, if you do love and if you (?) and here is a father and children and...

客人：拉比今天说的（？）太对了，那是一位人格化的神，有一个人，如果你真的爱，如果你（？），这里有父亲和孩子，还有……

so true what the rabbi was (?) today was a personal God, there is a person, if you do love and if you (?) and here is a father and children and...

拉比今天说的（？）太对了，那是一位人格化的神，有一个人，如果你真的爱，如果你（？），这里有父亲和孩子，还有……

Guest: That’s what you were just saying… for you God is a person.

客人：这就是你刚才说的……对你来说，神是一个人。

Yogiji: God to us, God is a personal as well as impersonal. God is Infinite and finite both.

Yogiji：对我们来说，神既人格化，也非人格化。神既是无限的，也是有限的。

Guest: So you are making yourself on find out here, never come down to…

客人：所以你是在让自己去发现这里，永远不下来到……

Guest: He is infinite and finite.

客人：祂是无限也是有限的。

Yogiji: He is Creator of everything and He is in everything but He is with me too and He is with everybody, when I see my personal God I must have the capacity to see everybody’s personal God. I won’t say like you I have found my God, have you found your God?

Yogiji：祂是一切万物的创造者，祂在一切之中，但祂也与我同在，祂与每个人同在，当我看到我个人的神时，我必须有能力看到每个人的个人的神。我不会像你那样说，我找到了我的神，你找到你的神了吗？

Guest: No, I didn’t say that. I didn’t say that.

客人：不，我没那么说。我没那么说。

Yogiji: We are tape recording it and I am going to repeat it to you. That’s why the tape is on.

Yogiji：我们在录音，我会把这话重复给你听。所以录音机才开着。

Guest: Have you found yours, have you found my God?

客人：你找到你的了吗，你找到我的神了吗？

Yogiji: Yeah.

Yogiji：是的。

Guest: He is your (?).

客人：祂是你的（？）。

Yogiji: My God is very personal, very, very personal and very, very impersonal.

Yogiji：我的神非常个人化，非常、非常个人化，也非常、非常非个人化。

Guest: What makes it personal?

客人：是什么让祂个人化？

Yogiji: Yeah.

Yogiji：是的。

Guest: He is your (?).

客人：祂是你的（？）。

Yogiji: My God is very personal, very, very personal and very, very impersonal.

Yogiji：我的神非常个人化，非常、非常个人化，也非常、非常非个人化。

Guest: What makes it personal?

客人：是什么让它变得个人化？

YB: Because God is Infinite and God is finite. When a God is to me it is finite. When God is around me everywhere it is very Infinite to me. And that experience of finite and Infinite when reaches the state of consciousness it is called Thuriya. Between universal consciousness, subconscious mind has four stages Jagrat, Supan, Sukupath, Thuriya. Awakened state, dream state, and totally sleep, bliss, forgetful state and totally aware state. These are the four (?) of life. When you sleep, deep sleep, neither you are a Christian…

YB：因为神是无限的，神也是有限的。当神对我而言时，它是有限的。当神在我周围无处不在时，它对我而言就是非常无限的。而那种有限与无限的体验，当它达到意识的状态时，就叫作 Thuriya。在宇宙意识之间，潜意识有四个阶段：Jagrat、Supan、Sukupath、Thuriya。觉醒状态、梦境状态、完全沉睡、极乐、遗忘状态，以及完全觉知的状态。这是生命的四种（？）。当你睡觉时，深度睡眠时，你既不是基督徒……

sleep, bliss, forgetful state and totally aware state. These are the four (?) of life. When you sleep, deep sleep, neither you are a Christian…

睡眠、极乐、遗忘状态，以及完全觉知的状态。这是生命的四种（？）。当你睡觉时，深度睡眠时，你既不是基督徒……

then you are a Christian, nor you are a man, nor you are a woman, nor you are rich, nor you are poor at that moment you are nothing but you are everything as a identity. But in awakened state you are awake, in dream state you sometime maybe awake sitting here thinking of something else and Thuriya is when intuitively you know the unknown and that stage when you know the unknown, see the unseen, hear the unheard is a state of mind when you see the finite and the Infinite as around you. So God is Sirgun and Nirgun. Sirgun is God is all the adjective and Nirgun God is beyond every facet.

那时你是基督徒，也不是男人，也不是女人，也不富有，也不贫穷，在那一刻你什么都不是，但作为一个身份，你又是一切。但在觉醒状态中你是醒着的，在梦境状态中你有时也许醒着坐在这里想着别的事情，而 Thuriya 就是当你直觉地知道那未知的，而那个阶段，当你知道那未知的、看见那未见的、听见那未闻的，就是一种心智状态，在其中你看见有限与无限就在你周围。所以神是 Sirgun 和 Nirgun。Sirgun 是神是一切形容词，而 Nirgun 神则超越每一个刻面。

Guest: That’s (?) but it's more (?).

客人：那是（？），但它更多是（？）。

you. So God is Sirgun and Nirgun. Sirgun is God is all the adjective and Nirgun God is beyond every facet.

你。所以神是 Sirgun 和 Nirgun。Sirgun 是神是一切形容词，而 Nirgun 神则超越每一个刻面。

Guest: That’s (?) but it's more (?).

客人：那是（？），但它更多是（？）。

YB: Well, where there is a mastery there is no mystery, where there is a mystery there is no mastery. It's so simple. Some people find God through love. Say love, you love Jesus Christ, my Lord God Jesus Christ is my Lord, my savior, it's your question of your affection. You have found it through that channel. But there maybe another person who has found Christ consciousness in everything. So Jesus becomes finite and Christ consciousness becomes Infinite. He is limited and unlimited. He is finite and Infinite. He is beyond still bound.

YB：嗯，哪里有精通，哪里就没有奥秘；哪里有奥秘，哪里就没有精通。就这么简单。有些人通过爱找到神。比如说爱，你爱耶稣基督，我的主神耶稣基督是我的主、我的救主，这是你情感的问题。你是通过那个通道找到它的。但也许另一个人在一切之中找到了基督意识。所以耶稣变成有限的，而基督意识变成无限的。他既受限又不受限。他既是有限的又是无限的。他既超越又被束缚。

Guest: Where is He limited?

客人：他在哪里受限？

Yogiji: Where? When it is my personal God it is very limited, it is very private, it is totally mine, you can’t have it.

Yogiji：哪里？当它是我个人的神时，它非常受限，它非常私密，它完全是我的，你无法拥有它。

Guest: That is a (?).

客人：那是一个（？）。

Yogiji: It is not selfish in me it is a excuse, it is a excuse.

Yogiji：在我里面这不是自私，它是一个借口，它是一个借口。

Guest: You just share your God then.

客人：那你只是分享你的神。

Yogiji: You can’t share your God.

Yogiji：你无法分享你的神。

Guest: My God is (?), right?

客人：我的神是（？），对吧？

selfish in me it is a excuse, it is a excuse.

在我里面自私，它是一个借口，它是一个借口。

Guest: You just share your God then.

客人：那你只管分享你的神就好了。

Yogiji: You can’t share your God.

Yogiji：你没法分享你的神。

Guest: My God is (?), right?

客人：我的神是（？），对吧？

Yogiji: When you are personal, when you are personal and you are not impersonal, when God is impersonal He is shared by all. By me, by you and by everybody, it's the same God, but in somewhere it is shared only by you.

Yogiji：当你是个人化的，当你是个人化的而不是非个人化的，当神是非个人化的，祂就被所有人共享。被我、被你、被每个人共享，是同一个神，但在某个地方，祂只被你一个人共享。

Guest: That’s true. And this is what you have to ask the rabbi to explain his personal God.

客人：确实如此。这就是你要请拉比解释他的个人化的神的地方。

Yogiji: No, no, I am not asking of the rabbi, what rabbi I asked rabbi was at that stage he went into a state of prayer where he went into what they call it state of ecstasy.

Yogiji：不，不，我不是在问拉比，我问拉比的是，在那个阶段他进入了祈祷的状态，进入了他们所说的狂喜的状态。

Guest: If that can be explained…

客人：如果那能解释的话……

Yogiji: Are you kidding?

Yogiji：你在开玩笑吗？

Guest: No, I am not kidding. But when you have a this type of feeling if a personal thing that (?) it belongs to you alone.

客人：不，我没开玩笑。但当你有了这种感受，如果一件个人化的东西（？）它只属于你一个人。

Yogiji: Listen, there is something I mean to say if you want to be pushy on that subject it's fine with me, I talked to him outside privately, I said, “When I yelled at you, share, why didn’t you share?”

Yogiji：听着，我想说的是，如果你想在这个话题上咄咄逼人，我没意见，我在外面私下跟他谈过，我说：“我冲你喊‘分享’的时候，你为什么不分享？”

want to be pushy on that subject it's fine with me, I talked to him outside privately, I said, “When I yelled at you, share, why didn’t you share?”

想在这个话题上咄咄逼人，我没意见，我在外面私下跟他谈过，我说：“我冲你喊‘分享’的时候，你为什么不分享？”

He said, “I wanted to share with you, I was little selfish. I never wanted to share with the entire congregation.” I accepted it, absolutely it was fine, because he was one rabbi there were other six rabbis and he never wanted a criticism. It was none of my problem, he knows better for himself.

他说：“我想跟你分享，我有点自私。我从没想过跟整个会众分享。”我接受了，完全没问题，因为他是其中一位拉比，还有另外六位拉比，他从不想招来批评。那不关我的事，他自己更清楚。

Guest: Do you think he considered…

客人：你觉得他有没有考虑过……

YB: Yes he could have, I know by my given will what is my experience that I can see through, I knew at that time if you want to be honest he could have done it that’s all. I knew it because the blue aura is a huge state of consciousness, where there is no duality in a man. No anger, no reservation, nothing, he was totally blue and I can see it is gap, which is always a black to me of a human body, it was total white, that’s why I say, ‘say it’ you can say, and then moment he came into the fear came to him, it was all gone and I asked him outside myself. I said, “Why didn’t you (?) damn it, you got into it, you would have enjoyed it. You would have (?)

YB：是的，他本可以的，我凭我被赋予的意志知道，凭我的经验我能看透，我当时就知道，如果你想说实话，他本可以做到的，仅此而已。我知道，因为蓝色的能量圈是一种巨大的意识状态，在那里人没有二元对立。没有愤怒，没有保留，什么都没有，他完全是蓝色的，我能看到那个空隙，对我来说那空隙在人身上总是黑色的，而它完全是白色的，所以我说，‘说出来’，你可以说的，然后他一进入恐惧，恐惧就来了，一切都没了，我在外面亲自问他。我说：“你为什么不（？）该死的，你都进去了，你本会享受的。你本会（？）

it was all gone and I asked him outside myself. I said, “Why didn’t you (?) damn it, you got into it, you would have enjoyed it. You would have (?)

一切都没了，我在外面亲自问他。我说：“你为什么不（？）该死的，你都进去了，你本会享受的。你本会（？

” He said, “Oh no, no, you know they were equally (?)” Fine with me. You know. Yes?

”他说：“哦不，不，你知道他们同样（？）”我没意见。你知道的。是吧？

Guest: One of the (?) today you just mentioned this several times is the (?) issues, Jews, Christians, Muslims, the Sikhs that’s one of…

客人：今天你多次提到的其中一个（？）问题，犹太人、基督徒、穆斯林、锡克教徒，那是其中之一……

Yogiji: Because it is not that they don’t want to include us. Well, you know some people have no knowledge of it. It’s a…

Yogiji：因为并不是他们不想把我们包括进去。你知道，有些人对它一无所知。它是……

Guest: It's monotheist.

客人：它是一神论。

Yogiji: Oh it's monotheist, but it has tolerance for everything else. You tolerate everybody’s God. We are monotheists, Ek Ong Kar, God is the one.

Yogiji：哦，它是一神论，但它对其它一切都包容。你包容每个人的神。我们是一神论者，Ek Ong Kar，神只有一个。

Student: The beginning of our scripture.

学生：这是我们经典的开头。

Yogiji: Our scripture starts with Ek Ong Kar. There is one Creator. Sat Nam, truth is His name. Karta Purkh, He is a being of doing of everything.

Yogiji：我们的经典以 Ek Ong Kar 开头。只有一个造物主。Sat Nam，真理就是祂的名字。Karta Purkh，祂是一切作为的伟大存在。

Guest: But how can you tolerate the others (?).

客人：但你怎么能包容其他人（？）。

There is one Creator. Sat Nam, truth is His name. Karta Purkh, He is a being of doing of everything.

只有一个造物主。Sat Nam，真理就是祂的名字。Karta Purkh，祂是一切作为的伟大存在。

Guest: But how can you tolerate the others (?).

客人：但你怎么能包容其他人（？）。

Yogiji: Well, they also belong to God. It is their God, this is what I say. It’s their personal God! I’ll not like to go to somebody and convert him. I’ll not like to push my God, my knowledge on anybody. I’ll tolerate and respect what God has created. And my way of expression that respect is whatever his God is, it is his God and if I love my God, I must love his God because there is one God. I’ll not say I love my God, but I don’t know your God. I’ll not say I have found my God and you have not yet found your God. If I as a human being has found my God I’ll also see that you have also found your God.

Yogiji：嗯，他们也属于神。那是他们的神，这就是我要说的。那是他们个人的神！我不想去到谁面前把他转化。我不想把我的神、我的知识强加给任何人。我会包容并尊重神所创造的一切。而我表达那份尊重的方式就是：不管他的神是什么，那就是他的神；如果我爱我的神，我就必须爱他的神，因为只有一个神。我不会说：我爱我的神，但我不认识你的神。我不会说：我找到了我的神，而你还没找到你的神。如果我作为一个人已经找到了我的神，我也会看到你也已经找到了你的神。

I’ll see it and in experience because once the elevated consciousness is elevated to the sense of elevation (?) elevates huge horizon.

我会看到它，而且在体验中看到，因为一旦提升的意识被提升到那种提升感（？），就会拓展出巨大的视野。

your God.

你的神。

I’ll see it and in experience because once the elevated consciousness is elevated to the sense of elevation (?) elevates huge horizon.

我会看到它，而且在体验中看到，因为一旦提升的意识被提升到那种提升感（？），就会拓展出巨大的视野。

You see from the top of the mountain, you see long distance. You see from the bottom of the mountain, you see only few acres. But both are seen, at the bottom of the mountain if somebody is seeing, at the top of the mountain if somebody is seeing. There is no defect of seeing, it is a question of horizon. Somebody has great vastness, somebody are very limited. In their limited happiness they maybe very happy and in the vastness of happiness…

你从山顶上看，能看得很远。你从山脚下看，只能看到几英亩。但两者都被看到了，山脚下有人在看，山顶上有人在看。看本身没有缺陷，这是视野的问题。有的人极其辽阔，有的人非常有限。在他们有限的快乐里，他们也许非常快乐，而在快乐的辽阔里……

YB: It looks like a dot. Clarity of universal consciousness is the individual Divinity.

YB：它看起来像一个点。宇宙意识的清晰，就是个体的神性。

Guest: You just believe in (?).

客人：你只是相信（？）。

the vastness of happiness…

快乐的辽阔里……

YB: It looks like a dot. Clarity of universal consciousness is the individual Divinity.

YB：它看起来像一个点。宇宙意识的清晰，就是个体的神性。

Guest: You just believe in (?).

客人：你只是相信（？）。

YB: Oh yeah we believe in the incarnation. Because under certain longitude and latitude you are born. You could have been born in Africa, not here. What made you to be born here, what causes the cause of which you are talking of the effect and you are born in Christian faith, what causes that cause you should have to be born in Christian faith. You belong to the Christ, what causes that cause, which made you to… why everybody doesn’t belong to the Christ? Why you? Who are you? What privilege you have got? So there is cause and effect on a certain axis of X and axis of Y. To me religion is not a mystery. It is not mystery to me.

YB：哦，是的，我们相信化身。因为你在特定的经度和纬度下出生。你本可以出生在非洲，而不是这里。是什么让你出生在这里，你所说的那个果的因是什么，而你出生在基督教信仰中，是什么因让你必须出生在基督教信仰中。你属于基督，是什么因，让你……为什么不是每个人都属于基督？为什么是你？你是谁？你有什么特权？所以在 X 轴和 Y 轴的某个轴线上，有因有果。对我来说，宗教不是谜。它对我来说不是谜。

Guest: To me it isn’t a mystery too.

客人：对我来说它也不是谜。

Yogiji: To me I can explain it just like I can explain a edge of (?) I can just explain exactly that way.

Yogiji：对我来说我可以解释它，就像我能解释（？）的边缘一样，我就能那样精确地解释。

Guest: I can’t even understand you.

客人：我甚至听不懂你。

Yogiji: If you cannot understand me…

Yogiji：如果你听不懂我……

Guest: I can accept what you say but (?)…

客人：我可以接受你说的话，但（？）……

just explain exactly that way.

就那样精确地解释。

Guest: I can’t even understand you.

客人：我甚至听不懂你。

Yogiji: If you cannot understand me…

Yogiji：如果你听不懂我……

Guest: I can accept what you say but (?)…

客人：我可以接受你说的话，但（？）……

Yogiji: Listen, question is you must understand first of all, mostly people are afraid that if somebody out of their religious tradition, he may influence them.

Yogiji：听着，问题是，首先你必须明白，大多数人害怕，如果某个人来自他们的宗教传统之外，他可能会影响他们。

Guest: Maybe.

客人：也许吧。

Yogiji: To me I go out of my religious tradition to talk to other people to enjoy them.

Yogiji：对我来说，我走出我的宗教传统，去和其他人交谈，去享受他们。

Guest: Because they are children of God and you want to see (?).

客人：因为他们是神的孩子，而你想看到（？）。

Yogiji: No, no, not that way. I feel that whatever people talk about God is (?).

Yogiji：不，不，不是那样。我觉得人们谈论神的一切都是（？）。

Guest: That’s true.

客人：那是真的。

YB: I go to a person who abuses God. And I go and say and let him abuse God and then it gives spiritual gratification, my God you are so good to me that I couldn’t be just nut. It gives me ecstasy of prayer. You must understand experience of totality is a experience of polarity. When you know the both ends of everything you know the center of everything. That’s the law. Between two lines crossing you will find a point and that is how you were born. You are caused to reach an effect; you are a effect to create a cause. Every sequence has consequences. Every consequence has a sequence.

YB：我去找一个辱骂神的人。我走过去说，让他辱骂神，然后它带来灵性的满足，我的神，你对我太好了，我不可能只是个疯子。它给我祈祷的狂喜。你必须明白，整体的体验是两极的体验。当你知道一切的两端，你就知道一切的中心。这就是法则。在两条线交叉之间，你会找到一个点，你就是那样出生的。你被导致去达到一个果；你是一个果，去创造一个因。每个序列都有后果。每个后果都有序列。

were born. You are caused to reach an effect; you are a effect to create a cause. Every sequence has consequences. Every consequence has a sequence.

出生。你被导致去达到一个果；你是一个果，去创造一个因。每个序列都有后果。每个后果都有序列。

To me my self as a human being is a event of sequence for which God is the consequence and that God is the consequence is my Infinity and the God the sequence is my finite. And I am not trying to make everything complicated; I am living among the complications. Because people have a fear to a Sikh who seeks God or who has found God has no fear.

对我来说，我作为一个人，是一连串的事件，神是它的结果，而神作为结果，就是我的无限；神作为序列，就是我的有限。我不是想把一切搞复杂；我就活在复杂之中。因为人们对锡克有恐惧，一个寻求神的人，或者已经找到神的人，是没有恐惧的。

Guest: Say it out again. There are fear of people who seek God.

客人：你再说一遍。寻求神的人有恐惧。

Yogiji: Thou shall not see the Infinite in the state of fear of mind because what you are seeking is beyond the state of limited mind and fear. I am not quoting my scripture; I am quoting your scripture. Thou shall not be converted to me, Thou are me in (?) and in Christ.

Yogiji：你不可在心智恐惧的状态中看见无限，因为你所寻求的，超出了有限心智和恐惧的状态。我不是在引用我的经典，我是在引用你的经典。你不可被转化到我这里，你在我里面，也在基督里。

Guest: So do you think Christ being your fellowman?

客人：所以你认为基督是你的同胞吗？

I am quoting your scripture. Thou shall not be converted to me, Thou are me in (?) and in Christ.

我是在引用你的经典。你不可被转化到我这里，你在我里面，也在基督里。

Guest: So do you think Christ being your fellowman?

客人：所以你认为基督是你的同胞吗？

Yogiji: Oh yeah, I talk about… as in my classes and in my religious studies where I talk about (?) I don’t remember any Christian talks about it. And it's all being printed, everybody reads, we talk about every man of God as lovingly, as freely. It doesn’t bother, whosoever is good, God is good. G O D, G O O D, G O O D S goods. We are buddies, you know, God in me, me in God, that is how it is. You create a huge block sometime, God is that and I am this. You create a distance. But you have to cover the distance, you have found God. You have to serve the God, you have to serve, serve is serve.

Yogiji：哦，是的，我谈到……就像在我的课上、在我的宗教研究里，我谈到（？），我不记得有哪个基督徒谈过这个。这些都在印出来，人人都读得到，我们谈到每一个属神的人，都带着爱，都自由地谈。这没什么关系，谁好，神就好。G O D，G O O D，G O O D S，货物。我们是哥们儿，你知道，神在我里面，我在神里面，就是这样。你有时候造出一大块障碍，神是那个，我是这个。你造出一段距离。但你必须把这段距离走完，你已经找到神了。你必须服务神，你必须服务，服务就是服务。

am this. You create a distance. But you have to cover the distance, you have found God. You have to serve the God, you have to serve, serve is serve.

我是这个。你造出一段距离。但你必须把这段距离走完，你已经找到神了。你必须服务神，你必须服务，服务就是服务。

Serve everything, because everything is God. Even in the sand there is God. As it is in the Synagogue or in the Church. I say always you learn about God in Synagogues and Churches, but God lives where coziness of home is, where union is, where unity is, where royalty of God and blessing is and that is only where there is a gratitude. If family gets up in the morning and prays to Lord, ‘thank you God.’ I don’t care whether Jews or Christian or they are anybody, whosoever prays their Creator is a nice creature. Whosoever denies is also nice because somebody will balance that. You must understand there are some people you tell them all about God, they are not going to learn it.

服务一切，因为一切都是神。即使在沙子里也有神。就像在会堂里或在教堂里一样。我总是说，你在会堂和教堂里学到关于神的事，但神住在家的温暖里，住在联结里，住在合一里，住在神的尊贵和祝福里，而那只有在有感恩的地方。如果一家人早上起来向主祈祷，「谢谢你，神。」我不在乎他们是犹太人、基督徒，还是别的什么人，谁向自己的造物主祈祷，谁就是好的受造物。谁否认，也是好的，因为会有人来平衡那个。你必须明白，有些人，你把神的一切都告诉他们，他们也学不会。

Guest: So they turn off, they don’t listen.

客人：所以他们关掉了，他们不听。

Yogiji: Every turn on has a turn off. You got to… no, no, it is not a simple philosophy; it is a very complicated philosophy.

Yogiji：每一个打开都有一个关闭。你必须……不，不，这不是一套简单的哲学；这是一套非常复杂的哲学。

Guest: I don’t want the complicated part… I don’t feel…

客人：我不想要复杂的部分……我感觉不到……

Yogiji: You cannot… you think you are very simple, you are simple, you are afraid.

Yogiji：你做不到……你以为自己很简单，你是很简单，你是害怕。

Guest: I am not afraid.

客人：我不害怕。

want the complicated part… I don’t feel…

想要复杂的部分……我感觉不到……

Yogiji: You cannot… you think you are very simple, you are simple, you are afraid.

Yogiji：你做不到……你以为自己很简单，你是很简单，你是害怕。

Guest: I am not afraid.

客人：我不害怕。

Yogiji: Well, if you are not afraid, well, deny something because you have accepted something, right? I told you in the beginning. The problem with us is... this is the problem I have seen in the western world. This is the problem I have seen in the western world; western world has a great love of God but they have a tremendous push about the way they look at God. God is not what a limited creature can look at and if a limited creature can look at God, then all it says is, ‘wow, wow, wow, wow,’ but here I have seen in my you know maybe our Indian tradition is different.

Yogiji：好吧，如果你不害怕，那你就否认点什么吧，因为你已经接受了点什么，对吧？我一开始就告诉过你。我们的问题在于……这是我在西方世界看到的问题。这是我在西方世界看到的问题；西方世界非常爱神，但他们看待神的方式有一种巨大的执拗。神不是一个有限的生命能去看的，如果一个有限的生命能去看神，那它只会说：「哇，哇，哇，哇」，但在这里我看到的，你知道，也许我们印度的传统不一样。

You have a tremendous tolerance because we believe if God is around you there is nothing to worry, there is nothing to be upset, when you have a set up why you are upset? You know we are a simple people in that way.

你有极大的包容，因为我们相信，如果神在你周围，就没什么可担心的，就没什么可烦心的，当你有了安排，你为什么要烦心？你知道，在这方面我们是简单的人。

Guest: That you definitely have (?) you got a light, you stand under a light and there is no shadow, right?

客人：那你们肯定有（？）你有一盏灯，你站在灯下就没有影子，对吧？

Yogiji: No, you are now contradicting yourself. You stand under light and you have a shadow.

Yogiji：不对，你现在自相矛盾了。你站在灯下，你就有影子。

you stand under a light and there is no shadow, right?

你站在灯下就没有影子，对吧？

Yogiji: No, you are now contradicting yourself. You stand under light and you have a shadow.

Yogiji：不对，你现在自相矛盾了。你站在灯下，你就有影子。

Guest: If you stand directly under the light there is no shadow.

客人：如果你正正地站在灯下，就没有影子。

Yogiji: You have a right angle shadow. You are not seeing it.

Yogiji：你有一个直角影子。你没看见而已。

Guest: The guy is the shadow; you have heard that very right?

客人：那家伙就是影子；你听过那个，对吧？

Yogiji: It is not listen… the problem is you people are machinery, you push God too much.

Yogiji：这不是聆听……问题在于你们这些人像机器，你们把神推得太过了。

Guest: No, I don’t push God.

客人：不，我没有推神。

Yogiji: I don’t… I don’t see God at all the way you see. I see God in everything, I see God in shadow. I see God equally in shadow as I see in light. Why not?

Yogiji：我不……我完全不像你们那样看神。我在一切之中看见神，我在影子里看见神。我在影子里看见神，和我在光里看见神一样。为什么不呢？

Guest: Some black people (?) and talked to a crowd that makes me very angry they talk to and they put down the people for being prejudice and I don’t feel I am prejudice…

客人：有些黑人（？）对一群人讲话，那让我很生气，他们讲话，他们贬低别人，说别人有偏见，而我不觉得自己有偏见……

Yogiji: But you become…

Yogiji：但你变得……

Guest: Happy, happy crowd…

客人：快乐，快乐的人群……

Yogiji: No you become… no, you become angry.

Yogiji：不，你变得……不，你变得愤怒。

Guest: Well, when I am accused of something I feel that I am not…

客人：好吧，当我被指责某件事时，我觉得我不是……

Yogiji: You can accuse me right now try it for sixteen minutes by watch accusing me and I will just smile at you.

Yogiji：你现在就可以指责我，试试看，用十六分钟，看着表指责我，我只会对你微笑。

Guest: Oh you can balance it… you balance…

客人：哦，你可以平衡它……你平衡……

You can accuse me right now try it for sixteen minutes by watch accusing me and I will just smile at you.

你现在就可以指责我，试上 16 分钟，看着我指责我，我只会对你微笑。

Guest: Oh you can balance it… you balance…

来宾：哦，你可以平衡它……你平衡……

Yogiji: You must understand my dear lady; you have to have a mind, which should be intuitive enough to balance you.

Yogiji：你必须明白，我亲爱的女士；你必须有一颗心智，它要有足够的直觉来平衡你。

Guest: I feel I have done that. I really feel I have done…

来宾：我觉得我已经做到了。我真的觉得我已经做到了……

Yogiji: Now, I am a professional teacher on that subject and my…

Yogiji：现在，在这个问题上我是专业的老师，而我的……

Guest: I don’t feel about that…

来宾：我对那件事没有感觉……

Yogiji: I don’t want… I don’t want to judge on you, I don’t want to judge on you…

Yogiji：我不想……我不想评判你，我不想评判你……

Guest: Right, I don’t mind.

来宾：对，我不介意。

Yogiji: But my privilege will be to tell you work little harder.

Yogiji：但我的特权是告诉你，再努力一点。

Guest: At what?

来宾：在哪方面？

Yogiji: At your mind! Try to reach a needful stage; don’t think that if you have found a ball you have won the game. There is a very popular saying…

Yogiji：在你的心智上！试着达到一个必要的阶段；不要以为你找到了一个球，你就赢了这场游戏。有一句很流行的话……

Guest: I am not (?) that way.

来宾：我不是（？）那样的。

Yogiji: You are not speaking?

Yogiji：你没有在说话？

Guest: I am not speaking. My God that I know is good to me and I serve as His child, and that’s as simple as that and I serve… (?) life and I feel (?).

来宾：我没有在说话。我所知道的神对我很好，我作为祂的孩子去服务，就这么简单，我服务……（？）生命，我觉得（？）。

Guest: That looks very (?) is your projected idea, she has her projective idea.

来宾：那看起来非常（？）是你的投射想法，她有她的投射想法。

Yogiji: No, I am not…

Yogiji：不，我不是……

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

serve… (?) life and I feel (?).

服务……（？）生命，我觉得（？）。

Guest: That looks very (?) is your projected idea, she has her projective idea.

来宾：那看起来非常（？）是你的投射想法，她有她的投射想法。

Yogiji: No, I am not…

Yogiji：不，我不是……

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: I am not discussing it according to my that one aspect of religion. No, I am not discussing that. I am not giving anybody view of any idea. I am not giving you a experience. It is not my progressive attitude that a attitude, a thought, a innocent idea, or b innocent idea, that’s where the tragedy is. That’s where the tragedy is. My God, and your God and our God. And by God they do not know what God is. God is love; it is a constant flow of energy. You fall in love, when you fall in love it's a one way traffic. Love has no return, when you do something for love you keep on doing, you don’t ask returns, when you ask returns then it's a business.

Yogiji：我不是按照我宗教的那一个面向来讨论它。不，我不是在讨论那个。我不是在给任何人任何想法的观点。我不是在给你一种体验。不是我的进步态度，那种态度，一个念头，一个天真的想法，或者 b 天真的想法，悲剧就在这里。悲剧就在这里。我的神，你的神，我们的神。而天哪，他们不知道神是什么。神是爱；它是能量的持续流动。你坠入爱河，当你坠入爱河，那是单向通行。爱没有回报，当你为爱做一件事，你就一直做下去，你不求回报，当你求回报，那就是生意。

When she has found her God she should not be angry, anybody they point out anything, everything, it doesn’t matter.

当她找到了她的神，她就不该生气，任何人指出任何事、一切事，都没关系。

Guest: I am not… I am not (?) I am angry when someone accuses me of something that I have not…

来宾：我不是……我不是（？）当有人指责我一件我没有……的事时，我会生气。

Yogiji: Well, wait a minute they accused Jesus Christ, put him on the cross…

Yogiji：好吧，等一下，他们指责耶稣基督，把他钉在十字架上……

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

when someone accuses me of something that I have not…

当有人指责我一件我没有……的事时。

Yogiji: Well, wait a minute they accused Jesus Christ, put him on the cross…

Yogiji：好吧，等一下，他们指责耶稣基督，把他钉在十字架上……

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: Oh no, no, no, no, he said, he prayed for them. That’s the best prayer he did. “Forgive them; they don’t know what they are doing.” He understood their limitness and he understood their unlimitedness, you know there is a basic problem today in Christianity, that’s why Christianity is falling apart, I go to lot of Christian congregations and they sometime invite me as a speaker and I…

Yogiji：哦不，不，不，不，他说，他为他们祈祷了。那是他做过的最好的祈祷。「原谅他们；他们不知道自己在做什么。」他理解他们的有限，也理解他们的无限，你知道今天基督教有一个根本问题，这就是为什么基督教正在分崩离析，我去过很多基督教聚会，他们有时邀请我去演讲，而我……

Guest: (?) before we fall very much sir.

客人：（？）在我们陷得太深之前，先生。

Yogiji: No, you keep on denying I am not worried about that but I am worried about what I am seeing.

Yogiji：不，你继续否认吧，我不担心那个，但我担心我所看到的。

Guest: I would like to ask you some questions about Sikh doctrine.

客人：我想问你一些关于锡克教义的问题。

Guest: (----)

客人：（----）

Guest: You know when people are happy with their faith and feel contended with it, why disturb them?

客人：你知道，当人们对自己的信仰感到满意并感到满足时，为什么要打扰他们？

Yogiji: No, we don’t.

Yogiji：不，我们不会。

Guest: You know why disturb them? (?) they have found something in that right for them… why to discuss it? I want to ask you it should be only for those who are really looking for something. I have been to… do the Sikhs include doctrine of Maya? In other words the world is…

客人：你知道为什么要打扰他们？（？）他们在那里面找到了适合他们的东西……为什么要讨论它？我想问你，它应该只适合那些真正在寻找某些东西的人。我去过……锡克教包含幻象（Maya）的教义吗？换句话说，世界是……

it should be only for those who are really looking for something. I have been to… do the Sikhs include doctrine of Maya? In other words the world is…

它应该只适合那些真正在寻找某些东西的人。我去过……锡克教包含幻象（Maya）的教义吗？换句话说，世界是……

Yogiji: Mirage, mirage, mirage, yes, knowledge when you believe in knowledge, then you have to have mirage, Maya. You know Prakirti and Purkha, Prakirti is creation, Purkha is the Creator.

Yogiji：海市蜃楼，海市蜃楼，海市蜃楼，是的，知识，当你相信知识时，你就必须有海市蜃楼，幻象（Maya）。你知道原质（Prakirti）和伟大存在（Purkha），原质（Prakirti）是创造，伟大存在（Purkha）是造物主。

Guest: In other words point you were suggesting to the play of God is like the Leela, Leela.

客人：换句话说，你暗示的神的遊戲就像 Leela，Leela。

Yogiji: It's a kind of a (?).

Yogiji：它是一种（？）。

Guest: In other words almost all Hindu doctrine is acceptable in Sikhism.

客人：换句话说，几乎所有印度教教义在锡克教中都可以接受。

Yogiji: No, no, not all.

Yogiji：不，不，不是全部。

Guest: Now what you don’t?

客人：那你不接受什么？

Yogiji: In Hindus, Hindu religion is a religion of everything and nothing. If you study Hindu religion the way deeply one has to study it has a… it has reached out mystically to Infinity and it is so limited that if you cross simple line, you are in hell. That’s the problem with Hinduism. If you see all facets of Hinduism, all, right from Assam everywhere where there is Hinduism, pile them together you will end up totally confused because on one side Hinduism says you eat meat, on the other says be kind and kindness is kindness to all and anything, which is afraid of dying you should not kill.

Yogiji：在印度教徒中，印度教是一个包含一切和虚无的宗教。如果你深入研究印度教，就像一个人必须深入研究的那样，它已经神秘地延伸到无限，而它又是如此有限，以至于如果你越过简单的界限，你就身处地狱。这就是印度教的问题。如果你看到印度教的所有面向，所有，从阿萨姆到任何有印度教的地方，把它们堆在一起，你最终会完全困惑，因为一方面印度教说你可以吃肉，另一方面说要有慈悲，而慈悲是对所有事物和任何事物的慈悲，任何害怕死亡的东西你都不应该杀。

side Hinduism says you eat meat, on the other says be kind and kindness is kindness to all and anything, which is afraid of dying you should not kill.

一方面印度教说你可以吃肉，另一方面说要有慈悲，而慈悲是对所有事物和任何事物的慈悲，任何害怕死亡的东西你都不应该杀。

Guest: But there very schools.

客人：但是有很多学派。

Yogiji: This is what I say. There are six schools of philosophy. Now six schools of philosophy are totally tolerated, they are totally different, and they are totally Hinduism. Okay. But in Sikh way of life there is your every… here the philosophy differs. Now, in (?) comes ego, I am God, onto me you come ever, O Arjun, right? Then other side it says Bhakti Yoga when it comes to Sanatan Dharma all is God. I am nothing. Deny! Now there are different six schools. But in Sikh way of life is, rise in the morning, meditate on the God, pray to Him and accelerate Him because He is Thy Creator. During the day, work through the sweat of your brow to earn your day.

Yogiji：这就是我要说的。有六个哲学流派。这六个哲学流派完全被容忍，它们完全不同，而且它们完全属于印度教。好吧。但在锡克的生活方式里，你的每一个……这里哲学是不同的。现在，在（？）里出现了小我，「我是神，你永远来到我这里，哦阿周那」，对吧？然后另一边说，当谈到 Sanatan Dharma 时，奉爱瑜伽就是一切皆是神。我什么都不是。否定！现在有六个不同的流派。但在锡克的生活方式里是，早晨起来，冥想神，向祂祈祷并加速祂，因为祂是你的造物主。白天，靠你额头的汗水工作，挣得你这一天的生活。

Guest: Is God the Creator?

客人：神是造物主吗？

Yogiji: God the Creator.

Yogiji：神是造物主。

Guest: There is not so much Hindu either you know.

客人：你知道，也没有那么多印度教的东西。

Yogiji: No, no, it is that Islamic that’s what (?) they took it upon the…

Yogiji：不，不，那是伊斯兰教的，那就是（？）他们把它加在……

Guest: Right, right, right.

客人：对，对，对。

There is not so much Hindu either you know.

你知道，也没有那么多印度教的东西。

Yogiji: No, no, it is that Islamic that’s what (?) they took it upon the…

Yogiji：不，不，那是伊斯兰教的，那就是（？）他们把它加在……

Guest: Right, right, right.

客人：对，对，对。

Yogiji: There is a one God and that is the one God. No second God. Thou shall not worship anything other than God. Thou shall break but shall not bend. You know in other religion is don’t worship, among us worship doesn’t matter. We are born worshippers, so question does not arise. To a Sikh it is Thou shall break fiber to fiber but shall not bow to anything, anything other than God. That is why they (?) how religious and holy I am nobody shall bow to me.

Yogiji：有一个神，那就是那一个神。没有第二个神。你不可崇拜神以外的任何东西。你可以被折断，但不可弯曲。你知道，在其他宗教里是不要崇拜，在我们中间，崇拜不是问题。我们生来就是崇拜者，所以问题根本不存在。对一个锡克来说，就是你可以被一根纤维一根纤维地折断，但不可向神以外的任何东西低头。这就是为什么他们（？）我有多虔诚、多神圣，没有人该向我低头。

Guest: Now is it true that all those doctrines of Karma and rebirth the hell that can be broken by devotion, intense devotion.

客人：那么，业力和重生、以及那个可以被奉爱、强烈的奉爱打破的地狱，所有这些教义都是真的吗？

Yogiji: Correct, Bhakti.

Yogiji：对，奉爱。

Guest: Right, yeah.

客人：对，是的。

all those doctrines of Karma and rebirth the hell that can be broken by devotion, intense devotion.

业力和重生、以及那个可以被奉爱、强烈的奉爱打破的地狱，所有这些教义。

Yogiji: Correct, Bhakti.

Yogiji：对，奉爱。

Guest: Right, yeah.

客人：对，是的。

Yogiji: Yeah, I have a Karma, it is my Karma to come and run around in America, it is total Karma. I was a born in a very well settled affair, I was not a teacher, it is not my profession. I was a government officer, I had my life, I had my family, all God was there put to me and blessful to me and now God is graceful to me, blessed me, work twenty-two hours, run around like a postman delivering letters. God is very kind to me, all I can say that. It’s a Karma. I tell everybody, moment I finish my Karma I must quit.

Yogiji：是的，我有业力，来到美国到处奔波是我的业力，这完全是业力。我出生在一个非常安稳的环境里，我不是老师，这不是我的职业。我曾是政府官员，我有我的生活，我有我的家庭，神把一切都放在我面前，祝福我，现在神恩待我，祝福我，工作 22 个小时，像个邮差一样到处跑着送信。神对我非常仁慈，我只能这么说。这是业力。我告诉每个人，我一完成我的业力，就必须离开。

Guest: (----)

客人：（----）

Yogiji: Cause and effect is there, though I shall serve those whom I am to serve, if I miss the service, I have to serve them, I owe them.

Yogiji：因果是在的，虽然我该服务那些我要服务的人，如果我错过了服务，我就必须服务他们，我欠他们。

Guest: (----)

客人：（----）

Cause and effect is there, though I shall serve those whom I am to serve, if I miss the service, I have to serve them, I owe them.

因果就在那里，虽然我会去服务那些我该服务的人，如果我错过了服务，我还是得去服务他们，我欠他们的。

Guest: (----)

客人：（----）

Yogiji: Well, if I mess up this somehow you know you mess up you got to make it up. Whatever you mess up, you got to make it up, but the law of Karma is Newton’s Third Law “For every action there is a reaction equal and opposite.” Cause and effect, so shall you sow… theory of Karma in the west can be understood by this, “So shall you sow, so shall you reap.”

Yogiji：嗯，如果我搞砸了这件事，你知道，你搞砸了就得弥补。不管你搞砸了什么，你都得弥补，但业力（Karma）的法则就是牛顿第三定律：「每一个作用力都有一个大小相等、方向相反的反作用力。」因与果，种什么因得什么果……西方的业力理论可以用这句话来理解：「种瓜得瓜，种豆得豆。」

Guest: (----)

客人：（----）

Yogiji: Thuriya.

Yogiji：Thuriya。

Guest: That’s where you are above (?).

客人：那就是你超越（？）的地方。

Yogiji: Yeah, there you don’t… you see the cause and you see the effect, but you are not a part of it, you are not playing with it, you are observing it.

Yogiji：对，在那里你不……你看到因，也看到果，但你不是它的一部分，你不跟它玩，你在观察它。

Guest: How does that relate to the Buddhist idea?

客人：那跟佛教的观念有什么关系？

see the effect, but you are not a part of it, you are not playing with it, you are observing it.

看到果，但你不是它的一部分，你不跟它玩，你在观察它。

Guest: How does that relate to the Buddhist idea?

客人：那跟佛教的观念有什么关系？

Yogiji: Oh that is Divine, that is truth. When truth… Buddhism is the cleverest religion ever created. It is the most clever religion. It doesn’t deny God and it doesn’t accept God. If it accepts God, then God is merciful to me? No, for Muslims it is whatever the Muslims say you forget about that. You know we don’t say anything. Because first is the word, power of the word, Muslim means one who is very humble. And entire Muslim spread was through the sword. Now what is humble and what is sword? They don’t go along together. What you say in theory what you practice in reality this two things has to be understood. But when you reach a stage of cause and effect, you see (?)

Yogiji：哦，那是神圣的，那是真理。当真理……佛教是有史以来被创造出来的最聪明的宗教。它是最聪明的宗教。它不否认神，也不接受神。如果它接受神，那神就对我慈悲了？不，对穆斯林来说，穆斯林说什么就是什么，那个你就忘了吧。你知道我们什么都不说。因为首先是那个词，词的力量，穆斯林的意思是极度谦卑的人。而整个穆斯林的传播是靠剑。那什么是谦卑，什么是剑？这两样走不到一块儿去。你在理论上说的，和你在现实中做的，这两件事得搞清楚。但当你到达因果的那个阶段，你看到（？）

what it matters, how many Muslims you have converted? According to Koran if you don’t have faith in me you are a Kafir. There is a one type, I mean sutra. If you don’t believe in Mohammad, then you are a Kafir.

那有什么关系，你转化了多少穆斯林？按照《古兰经》，如果你不信我，你就是Kafir。有一种，我是说经（sutra）。如果你不信穆罕默德，那你就是Kafir。

Guest: Kafir?

客人：Kafir？

Student: Kafir, unbeliever.

学生：Kafir，不信者。

are a Kafir. There is a one type, I mean sutra. If you don’t believe in Mohammad, then you are a Kafir.

就是Kafir。有一种，我是说经。如果你不信穆罕默德，那你就是Kafir。

Guest: Kafir?

客人：Kafir？

Student: Kafir, unbeliever.

学生：Kafir，不信者。

Yogiji: Kafir means unbeliever as in Christianity is the same. You know the traditions are the same. Judaism, Christianity, there is a little bit difference here, little bit there now when…

Yogiji：Kafir的意思是不信者，跟基督教里一样。你知道这些传统是一样的。犹太教、基督教，这里有点小差别，那里有点小差别，现在当……

Guest: Well, what I was (?) my question was is the state of equilibrium, but they (?) then one (?) says words of compassion but has no compulsion to act.

客人：嗯，我（？）我的问题是，那个平衡的状态，但他们（？）然后一个（？）说慈悲的话，却没有行动的强迫。

Yogiji: Then everything acts around you. Everything acts around you.

Yogiji：那一切都会在你周围运作。一切都会在你周围运作。

Guest: (?) in best form.

客人：（？）以最好的形式。

YB: Yeah, but in Buddhism there is a one little situation where Buddha says in truth you will find happiness. So long you are unhappy you have not found the truth. And that is why he never emphasized on God. But it is not without God. Truth is God. I mean you want to look at truth, what is the ultimate truth? Ultimate truth is God. But now it is a point, which other people got. Oho Buddhism is not God. Well, Buddhism is not God, you are a thief. So Buddh means little simple word is simple. Buddh, Buddh means Buddhi, Buddhi means wisdom.

YB：是的，但在佛教里有一个小小的情形，佛陀说在真理中你会找到快乐。只要你不快乐，你就还没有找到真理。这就是为什么他从不强调神。但它并不是没有神。真理就是神。我是说，你想看看真理，什么是终极真理？终极真理就是神。但现在这是一个要点，别人抓住了。哦，佛教没有神。好吧，佛教没有神，你是个贼。所以 Buddh 这个简单的词很简单。Buddh，Buddh 就是 Buddhi，Buddhi 就是智慧。

is not God. Well, Buddhism is not God, you are a thief. So Buddh means little simple word is simple. Buddh, Buddh means Buddhi, Buddhi means wisdom. The intelligence, supreme intelligence or infinite intelligence, that is all God is about.

不是神。好吧，佛教没有神，你是个贼。所以 Buddh 这个简单的词很简单。Buddh，Buddh 就是 Buddhi，Buddhi 就是智慧。智力，至高的智力或无限的智力，那就是神的一切。

Guest: Okay, let’s really go back… the Muslims being living the sword and so the Sikh way also isn’t very exciting.

客人：好吧，让我们真正回到……穆斯林是靠剑活着的，所以锡克教的方式也不怎么令人兴奋。

Yogiji: Yeah, fighting is there, fight. Because in our religion there is a one simple thing. Meditate on God and defend yourself. Sikhs are…

Yogiji：是的，战斗是有的，战斗。因为在我们宗教里有一件简单的事。冥想神，并保卫你自己。锡克教徒是……

Guest: (?) conversion.

客人：（？）皈依。

YB: No, no, no, Sikhs are very peaceful if you don’t disturb them. It is not that you hit my left cheek and I’ll give you my right. You hit my left cheek I’ll break your right. This is how they say the word of God is my action. To protect the meek is my service.

YB：不，不，不，锡克教徒非常和平，只要你不去打扰他们。并不是你打我的左脸，我就把右脸给你。你打我的左脸，我就打断你的右脸。这就是他们说的，神的话就是我的行动。保护弱者是我的服务。

Guest: Right.

客人：对。

You hit my left cheek I’ll break your right. This is how they say the word of God is my action. To protect the meek is my service.

你打我的左脸，我就打断你的右脸。这就是他们说的，神的话就是我的行动。保护弱者是我的服务。

Guest: Right.

客人：对。

Yogiji: The meek. You know that’s what I was giving an example suppose in my presence a girl is being raped and to put lay myself in between is my religion and if that causes a death I am happiest person. And if somebody wants to rob me of twenty dollars on a gun point, I’ll snatch his gun and if that causes my death I’ll buy it. To a Sikh dying has nothing to do; he has no fear of death and that’s why handful of soldiers we turned away the chapter of the history. And entire Mogul Empire, which was prejudice Muslim rulership of India, they persecuted us to the best of their ability.

Yogiji：弱者。你知道，这就是我举的例子，假设在我面前一个女孩正在被强暴，挡在中间就是我的宗教，如果那导致死亡，我是最快乐的人。如果有人想拿枪抢我二十块钱，我会夺下他的枪，如果那导致我死亡，我买账。对锡克教徒来说，死亡不算什么；他不怕死，这就是为什么我们以寥寥几个士兵扭转了历史的一章。整个莫卧儿帝国，那是对印度有偏见的穆斯林统治，他们尽其所能地迫害我们。

In the world there is no better strategic persecution of human being than what the Sikhs have gone through but we never gave an inch. Empire fell before us. We didn’t withdraw. And that is what faith is.

在世界上，没有比锡克教徒所经历过的更好的人类战略迫害了，但我们从未让出一寸。帝国在我们面前倒塌。我们没有退缩。这就是信仰。

of human being than what the Sikhs have gone through but we never gave an inch. Empire fell before us. We didn’t withdraw. And that is what faith is.

人类所经历的，比锡克教徒所经历过的更好，但我们从未让出一寸。帝国在我们面前倒塌。我们没有退缩。这就是信仰。

Faith is when you do not fake it. Faith is it. So long you are in the capacity of the creativity of polarity of he and she, you have not yet reached the it. Hesheit! He, she and it. When you get to the it, then it is. And that is when the concept of Infinity reaches you, then fear is gone. Then it's a stage of ecstasy, so man is totally intoxicated. You cut him, what that matters to him? And that is what that permutation of combination of Gurbani does to people. It gives them a state of ecstasy. By recitation a certain permutation and combination happens, and thalamus secretes and state of ecstasy is reached.

信仰就是你不假装。信仰就是它。只要你还处在他和她这极性创造力的范畴里，你就还没到达那个「它」。他她它！他、她、它。当你到达那个「它」，它就在了。那时候，无限的观念触及你，恐惧就消失了。那时是狂喜的状态，人完全沉醉。你把他切开，那对他又算什么？这就是《古鲁圣言》的种种组合排列对人所起的作用。它带给人狂喜的状态。通过诵读，某种组合排列发生了，丘脑分泌，狂喜的状态就达到了。

Guest: That ecstasy is different from (?) opinion.

客人：那种狂喜和（？）的看法不同。

Yogiji: No, ecstasy gives you a balance of consciousness and balance of consciousness will take you from cause and effect.

Yogiji：不，狂喜给你意识的平衡，而意识的平衡会带你超越因果。

Guest: So it's a product of ecstasy. You can’t get it without ecstasy?

客人：所以它是狂喜的产物。没有狂喜你就得不到它？

Yogiji: No, then you are conscious. When you are conscious (?) we are conscious of gain and loss.

Yogiji：不，那样你还是有意识的。当你有意识时（？），我们意识到得与失。

Guest: Like those repeating or singing of…

客人：就像那些反复念诵或唱诵的……

Yogiji: Yeah, those because…

Yogiji：对，那些因为……

are conscious. When you are conscious (?) we are conscious of gain and loss.

是有意识的。当你有意识时（？），我们意识到得与失。

Guest: Like those repeating or singing of…

客人：就像那些反复念诵或唱诵的……

Yogiji: Yeah, those because…

Yogiji：对，那些因为……

Guest: That, that produces the ecstasy.

客人：那，那产生了狂喜。

Yogiji: It is the music, it is the music, every word, every sutra is in a particular rhythm and it is in poetry, because the highest impression of a man is in poetry and in music.

Yogiji：是音乐，是音乐，每个词、每句经都在特定的节奏里，都在诗里，因为人最高的印记就在诗和音乐里。

Guest: (?) I have (?) because you said earlier that Sikhism is opposed to rituals or you may little… you took a little amount of the religious traditions and that’s the ritual. But the singing of the mantra, it seems to me a kind of ritual.

客人：（？）我（？）因为你之前说过锡克教反对仪式，或者你可能有点……你取了一小部分宗教传统，那就是仪式。但唱诵曼陀罗，在我看来也是一种仪式。

Yogiji: No, it is individual. You have to grind the wheat; you have to put it in grinder.

Yogiji：不，它是个人的。你得磨小麦，你得把它放进磨里。

Guest: You what?

客人：你得什么？

Yogiji: You have to do your Madhavni, you have to do your churning, you don’t do the churning you don’t get the butter. It's none of my problem. You wear turban, you have beard, you wear every sign and symptoms.

Yogiji：你得做你的Madhavni，你得做你的搅拌，你不搅拌就得不到黄油。那不关我的事。你戴头巾，你留胡须，你戴上一切标志和症状。

Guest: But it is going to prescribe…

客人：但它会规定……

get the butter. It's none of my problem. You wear turban, you have beard, you wear every sign and symptoms.

得到黄油。那不关我的事。你戴头巾，你留胡须，你戴上一切标志和症状。

Guest: But it is going to prescribe…

客人：但它会规定……

Yogiji: No, no, it is a technology. It's a simple technology… after all what you mean, you got to have some technology to reach a certain stage. Whether you want that stage, now I have come here, I have used a car, I have come here. I could have come on foot, I could have come on a donkey, I could have come on helicopter, but purpose is coming here.

Yogiji：不，不，它是一门技术。它是一门简单的技术……说到底你什么意思，你得有某种技术才能到达某个阶段。不管你想不想要那个阶段，现在我来到这里，我用了车，我来到这里。我本可以步行来，我本可以骑驴来，我本可以坐直升机来，但目的是来到这里。

Guest: Are the mantras in the foreign tongue…

客人：那些曼陀罗是用外语念的吗……

Yogiji: No, no, no it is not a foreign tongue or it is not a local tongue, it is a Gurmukhi. It's a language, it is a sound combination.

Yogiji：不，不，不，它不是外语，也不是本地话，它是 Gurmukhi。它是一种语言，是一种声音的组合。

Guest: Do the chanters understand what they chant?

客人：唱诵的人明白自己在唱什么吗？

tongue or it is not a local tongue, it is a Gurmukhi. It's a language, it is a sound combination.

话，也不是本地话，它是 Gurmukhi。它是一种语言，是一种声音的组合。

Guest: Do the chanters understand what they chant?

客人：唱诵的人明白自己在唱什么吗？

Yogiji: Oh he can understand yes. But understand or doesn’t understand doesn’t mean a thing. Question is correct chanting. It is all praise of God. Every word is not and in the scripture there is a saying of Mohammadan, there is a saying of Hindu, there is a saying of non-Hindus, there are lot of sayings of everybody. It is a time compilation of all those people who were at the same level of consciousness. And it is a saying of everybody there. But the process of saying is what matters. That combination, that cut of the key, which opens the lock. Every word are…

Yogiji：哦，他能明白，是的。但明白或不明白并不重要。问题在于唱诵得对不对。它全是对神的赞美。每一个字都不是，而且在经典里有穆罕默德的说法，有印度教徒的说法，有非印度教徒的说法，有许许多多人的说法。它是那个时代所有处于同一意识层次的人的话语汇编。里面有每一个人的说法。但说的过程才是关键。那个组合，那把钥匙的齿形，能打开锁。每一个字都是……

Guest: How (?) that the Roman Catholic tradition or (?) to there is a (?) is not a language in common usage by (?) worshippers.

客人：那（？）罗马天主教传统或者（？）那里有一种（？）不是（？）信徒日常通用的语言。

Yogiji: Gurmukhi, Gurmukhi.

Yogiji：Gurmukhi，Gurmukhi。

Guest: The neutral language doesn’t (?) but the language of praise…

客人：那种中立的语言不（？），但赞美的语言……

Yogiji: That is for preaching the religion. This is for experience of the reality.

Yogiji：那是用来传教的。这是用来体验实相的。

Guest: Oh the (?) for the experience of reality.

客人：哦，那（？）是用来体验实相的。

of praise…

赞美的语言……

Yogiji: That is for preaching the religion. This is for experience of the reality.

Yogiji：那是用来传教的。这是用来体验实相的。

Guest: Oh the (?) for the experience of reality.

客人：哦，那（？）是用来体验实相的。

Yogiji: No, no, I preach in English and somebody can preach in Portuguese, somebody preach… it doesn’t matter but when you want to do the churning you have to have the milk, you have to make a yogurt, you have to take the cream, you have to do the whole thing. So it doesn’t matter…

Yogiji：不，不，我用英语传教，有人可以用葡萄牙语传教，有人传教……这没关系，但当你想要搅动的时候，你得有牛奶，你得做成酸奶，你得取出奶油，你得做整个过程。所以没关系……

Guest: What language you use…

客人：你用什么语言……

Yogiji: Any language you can use but when you want to reach that stage, you know question is very simple… that’s what I say. You can go on a donkey and you can go on a helicopter, choice is yours. Those combinations are meant to go fast in you to reach fast. Now she reads the Gurbani, she has learnt it, she likes it, and she may not read it, it's not compulsory for her. She can read the same thing in English. But what is that… she has the translation, she is the one who did the translation, she might like her translation but question is very simple that translation is not that permutation and combination.

Yogiji：你可以用任何语言，但当你想要到达那个阶段时，你知道问题很简单……这就是我说的。你可以骑驴去，也可以坐直升机去，选择在你。那些组合是为了让你内在快速前进、快速到达。现在她读 Gurbani，她学过它，她喜欢它，她也可以不读，这对她不是必须的。她可以用英语读同样的东西。但那是什么……她有译本，她就是做翻译的人，她可能喜欢自己的译本，但问题很简单，那个译本不是那种排列组合。

the one who did the translation, she might like her translation but question is very simple that translation is not that permutation and combination.

做翻译的那个人，她可能喜欢自己的翻译，但问题很简单，翻译不是那种排列组合。

Translation is knowledge, translation is excellence, translation provokes you, elevates you, transforms you, but it does not does that what that does.

翻译是知识，翻译是卓越，翻译会激发你、提升你、转化你，但它做不到那个东西所能做到的。

Guest: So these words are the right sound in…

来宾：所以这些词是正确的声音在……

Yogiji: You are right.

Yogiji：你说得对。

Guest: The question is sound.

来宾：问题在于声音。

Yogiji: It's a mystical sound and it works two ways, there are three ways of the sound. First is I speak, this is a sound, second is I whisper that is a sound, human sound, lover’s sound and God’s sound and third is in my silence, I go through the sound. But whatever I say I also hear, ears are responsible through the sound of the ear to create the balance of (?) sound they hear. Tongue is responsible to go in the eighty-four meridian points on the upper palate to stimulate the thalamus and that two combination gives a permanent stage of ecstasy in living reality. That is what the secret or mystery about it. It has been well explained. Now as he can tell me Sat Nam I can tell him Sat Nam.

Yogiji：它是一种神秘的声音，它以两种方式起作用，声音有三种方式。第一种是我说话，这是一种声音；第二种是我低语，那也是一种声音，人的声音、爱人的声音和神的声音；第三种是在我的静默中，我穿过声音。但无论我说什么，我也在听，耳朵通过耳朵的声音负责创造出他们所听到的声音的平衡。舌头负责触及上颚的八十四处经脉点，去刺激丘脑，这两种组合在活生生的现实中给出一个永恒的狂喜状态。这就是它其中的秘密或奥秘。这已经被很好地解释过了。现在，他能对我说 Sat Nam，我就能对他说 Sat Nam。

in living reality. That is what the secret or mystery about it. It has been well explained. Now as he can tell me Sat Nam I can tell him Sat Nam.

在活生生的现实中。这就是它其中的秘密或奥秘。这已经被很好地解释过了。现在，他能对我说 Sat Nam，我就能对他说 Sat Nam。

Now for you if I say Sat Nam truth is my identity that’s the translation. But I say truth is my identity does not serve the purpose of Sat Nam. And then I bifurcate this atom, I separate it to create the atomic energy out of it then I’ll say Sa Ta Na Ma, it is the tongue.

现在对你来说，如果我说 Sat Nam——真理是我的身份，那就是翻译。但我说「真理是我的身份」，并不能达成 Sat Nam 的目的。然后我把这个原子一分为二，我把它分开，从中创造出原子能，然后我会说 Sa Ta Na Ma，那是舌头的事。

Guest: (-----)

来宾：（-----）

Guest: (?) some (?) tradition, in (?) tradition there are certain words, Praise the Lord, Hallelujah…

来宾：（？）某些（？）传统，在（？）传统中有一些特定的词，赞美主，Hallelujah……

Yogiji: Hallelujah, now listen, Hallelujah is one word, which is with you, which we understand. We don’t understand anything of it. No, I am just saying. In the entire Christianity minus Hallelujah nothing exists. To me as a Nad Yogi, as a master of the sound, beyond Hallelujah nothing exists. That’s why in every…

Yogiji：Hallelujah，现在听着，Hallelujah 是一个词，它与你同在，是我们能理解的。我们对它一无所知。不，我只是在说。在整个基督教中，减去 Hallelujah，什么都不存在。对我这个 Naad 瑜伽士、这个声音的大师来说，超越 Hallelujah，什么都不存在。所以每一个……

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: No, it is a combination of sound. It’s no problem to me. That Christ in consciousness you are talking about is in all in this, grinded in this.

Yogiji：不，它是声音的组合。对我来说没问题。你所说的那个在意识中的基督，全都在这里面，被磨碎在这里面。

Guest: If there is a sound…

来宾：如果有一种声音……

Yogiji: No, no, no…

Yogiji：不，不，不……

to me. That Christ in consciousness you are talking about is in all in this, grinded in this.

对我来说。你所说的那个在意识中的基督，全都在这里面，被磨碎在这里面。

Guest: If there is a sound…

来宾：如果有一种声音……

Yogiji: No, no, no…

Yogiji：不，不，不……

Guest: For many people sound like (?) that carries the kind of… they trigger and they (?) state in ecstasy within that you know…

来宾：对很多人来说，声音像（？）它承载着那种……它们触发，然后他们（？）进入狂喜状态，你知道的……

Yogiji: But that’s temporary dear, that comes and goes and that stage Thuriya stage comes and it never goes. That’s it, there you go. Now there is a girl with us Sadhu Singh’s wife, she sings this Hallelujah, Saints are marching on when it does that, then she adds in that the sound Hallelujah. I whenever I do this is the only thing I enjoy, I tell her to say it all the time, this is the sound I understand, this is the sound I know, this is the sound, rest is to me…

Yogiji：但那是暂时的，亲爱的，它来了又走，而那个阶段——图利亚（Thuriya）阶段——来了就永远不会走。就是这样，这就对了。现在有个女孩和我们在一起，萨杜·辛格（Sadhu Singh）的妻子，她唱这首哈利路亚（Hallelujah），圣徒们正在前进，当它这样发生时，她就加入那个声音——哈利路亚。每当我做这个，这是我唯一享受的事，我告诉她一直说它，这是我能理解的声音，这是我知道的声音，就是这个声音，其余的对我来说……

Guest: It's never psychological thing…

客人：这从来不是心理层面的东西……

Yogiji: No, no, no, that fix it, minus Hallelujah I don’t think there is any Christianity. I am not saying to me, to you it is everything. To me it is nothing. Now this Jehovah… it is… they don’t know, I know. I have never seen a single Jew knowing how to create a sound and I have not yet met a single Hindu who can sound Om.

Yogiji：不，不，不，那能解决问题，减去哈利路亚，我不认为还有任何基督教。我不是在对我自己说，对你来说它是一切。对我来说它什么都不是。现在这个耶和华（Jehovah）……它是……他们不知道，我知道。我从未见过一个犹太人知道如何创造声音，我也还没遇到过一个印度教徒能发出 Om 的音。

Guest: Say Om.

客人：说 Om。

Yogiji: Oh I have to do that…

Yogiji：哦，我得做那个……

Guest: Avummmmmmmmmmmm…

客人：Avummmmmmmmmmmm……

how to create a sound and I have not yet met a single Hindu who can sound Om.

如何创造声音，我也还没遇到过一个印度教徒能发出 Om 的音。

Guest: Say Om.

客人：说 Om。

Yogiji: Oh I have to do that…

Yogiji：哦，我得做那个……

Guest: Avummmmmmmmmmmm…

客人：Avummmmmmmmmmmm……

Yogiji: No, no, give me the paper. You can’t say whether you bleed from the nose if you have not (?). I sang for… remember?

Yogiji：不，不，把纸给我。如果你没有（？），你就不能说你是否从鼻子流血。我唱过……记得吗？

Guest: And there is a film.

客人：而且有一部电影。

Yogiji: Yeah.

Yogiji：是的。

Guest: Is there a film that I sound? Why is God sometime called great steel and great death?

客人：有一部电影是我发出声音的吗？为什么神有时被称为伟大的钢和伟大的死亡？

Yogiji: Yeah, God is called great steel. Now what is steel? Steel is the metal, material manifestation of (?) that is Infinite creation. Now you say God is steel that means Infinite patience. And when you do say God is great death that means the joy of rejoicing of relaxation of Infinity when you sleep. Then these expressions are very mystical. And there we try to apply very basic, very cheapness you know, and you know it is hangout for… religion is a hangout for lot of people. It’s a kind of hangout, they don’t want to work for it, they don’t want to understand it, I have found Jesus Christ, I have found Nanak, I meet everybody these people.

Yogiji：是的，神被称为伟大的钢。现在什么是钢？钢是金属，是（？）的物质显化，那就是无限的创造。现在你说神是钢，那意味着无限的耐心。而当你说神是伟大的死亡，那意味着当你睡觉时，无限的放松中那种欢庆的喜悦。然后这些表达非常神秘。而在那里我们试图应用非常基本的、非常廉价的东西，你知道，你知道它是……宗教是很多人的一个据点。它是一种据点，他们不想为它下功夫，他们不想理解它，我找到了耶稣基督，我找到了那纳克（Nanak），我遇到所有人这些人。

So whatever you have found, you have found, but have you found what they said?

所以无论你找到了什么，你找到了，但你找到了他们所说的吗？

found Jesus Christ, I have found Nanak, I meet everybody these people.

找到了耶稣基督，我找到了那纳克，我遇到所有人这些人。

So whatever you have found, you have found, but have you found what they said?

所以无论你找到了什么，你找到了，但你找到了他们所说的吗？

Jesus said found my fathers, Nanak said found my Infinite, Buddha said found the truth you know. But if you have not found it then what you have found, what you are talking about? And that is where Guru Nanak said, ‘well you have to be householder,’ people stood before him, look Bhai, there are people who work whole their life, they don’t know anything but worship God, you are talking of the householder, raise your children, earn your whole thing, and find God, this is impossible and then he sang Japji. Japa of the Ji, Ji is the soul, Ji means the soul, Ji is Infinite sound. It’s the first letter of God also, Ji. That people call me Yogiji, Ji is the sound of the soul. So he sang Japji.

耶稣说找到了我的父，Nanak 说找到了我的无限，佛陀说找到了你所知道的真理。但如果你还没找到，那你找到的是什么，你在谈的又是什么？就在那里 Guru Nanak 说：「嗯，你必须做在家居士。」人们站在他面前，看哪 Bhai，有些人一辈子工作，除了敬拜神什么都不知道，你却在谈在家居士，养大你的孩子，挣你的一切，还要找到神，这不可能。然后他唱了 Japji。Japji 的 Japa，Ji 是灵魂，Ji 的意思是灵魂，Ji 是无限的声音。它也是神的名字的第一个字母，Ji。人们叫我 Yogiji，Ji 是灵魂的声音。所以他唱了 Japji。

Now Japji has forty sutras, forty (?), and Japji is written in the permutation of combination to elevate the soul from finite to Infinity within the finite. It doesn’t break the structure.

现在 Japji 有四十节经（Sutra），四十（？），Japji 是用排列组合写成的，为的是在有限之中把灵魂从有限提升到无限。它不打破结构。

and Japji is written in the permutation of combination to elevate the soul from finite to Infinity within the finite. It doesn’t break the structure.

Japji 是用排列组合写成的，为的是在有限之中把灵魂从有限提升到无限。它不打破结构。

If it breaks the structure then death must happen, that’s what we call it great death. Maha Samadhi, and that is the highest music. Question is that these things you have to talk to somebody who has studied and who has experienced and who has gone through everything. But who has the time? You know I iceberg like top of the surface you look at and (?) tons of tons of underneath. So when we chant Om… you must have enjoyed that mystery, they say chant Om on the other hand they say Om is a sound, which cannot be chanted. Because it cannot be chanted by mouth. It has to be chanted by this Trikuti, this combination of Ida and Pingala, and Sushmana.

如果它打破结构，那就必须发生死亡，那就是我们所说的大死。Maha Samadhi，那是最高的音乐。问题是，这些东西你得跟一个研究过、体验过、经历过一切的人谈。但谁有时间？你知道，我像冰山，你看到的是露出水面的一角，（？）底下是成吨成吨的。所以当我们唱诵 Om……你一定享受过那个奥秘，他们说唱诵 Om，另一方面他们又说 Om 是一个不能唱诵的声音。因为它不能用嘴唱诵。它必须用这个 Trikuti 来唱诵，用 Ida、Pingala 和 Sushmana 的结合。

That is why if your channel is not clean and you try to do it you start bleeding like in hell. That’s important (?) because that can cause break the rupture, it becomes ruptured.

这就是为什么如果你的通道不干净，你还试着去做，你就会像在地狱里一样开始流血。这很重要（？），因为那会造成破裂，它会破裂。

is not clean and you try to do it you start bleeding like in hell. That’s important (?) because that can cause break the rupture, it becomes ruptured.

不干净，你还试着去做，你就会像在地狱里一样开始流血。这很重要（？），因为那会造成破裂，它会破裂。

So by chanting Om, Om, Om, Om, you do whole life, now Hallelujah is in a music, but you say Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah go to hell, go on saying rest of your life. It won’t do a thing. But if you put into the harmony and you chant exact thirty-one minutes see what it does to you. Once I went to a Christian congregation and I was to teach them, they said we want experience. I said, “Well, you respect the Christianity then you sing Hallelujah.”

所以唱诵 Om、Om、Om、Om，你唱一辈子，现在 Hallelujah 是在音乐里，但你说 Hallelujah、Hallelujah、Hallelujah，滚去地狱吧，你就这样念完余生。它一点用都没有。但如果你把它放进和声里，你准确地唱诵 31 分钟，看看它会对你做什么。有一次我去一个基督徒的聚会，我要教他们，他们说我们想要体验。我说：「那好，你们尊重基督教，那你们就唱 Hallelujah。」

They said, “We sing all the time.”

他们说：“我们一直在唱。”

I said, “Well, all the time.”

我说：“好吧，一直在唱。”

They said, “No.”

他们说：“不是。”

“One tenth of the time. So you sing two and a half hours.”

“十分之一的时间。所以你们唱两个半小时。”

They said, “Okay.”

他们说：“好。”

They got their organ, they sat, the whole thing, got whole congregation started singing Hallelujah. Nothing else, Hallelujah. I sat down to meet, just nothing, I enjoyed they enjoyed it, after two and a half hours that Indian Reverend Father, came to me, he said nobody knows who is what. I said, “I told you.”

他们搬来风琴，坐下来，整套东西，让整个会众开始唱 Hallelujah。没有别的，就是 Hallelujah。我坐下来和他们见面，什么都没做，我很享受，他们也很享受，两个半小时后，那位印度牧师来找我，他说没人知道谁是谁。我说：“我告诉过你。”

I enjoyed they enjoyed it, after two and a half hours that Indian Reverend Father, came to me, he said nobody knows who is what. I said, “I told you.”

我很享受，他们也很享受，两个半小时后，那位印度牧师来找我，他说没人知道谁是谁。我说：“我告诉过你。”

From that Church everybody left on the fourth day. We had to massage, we had to get all the Yogis to get them back into normal. And he said, “Yogiji, what has happened?”

到第四天，那座教堂里所有人都走了。我们得给他们按摩，得让所有瑜伽士把他们弄回正常状态。他说：“Yogiji，到底发生了什么？”

I said, “Hallelujah! Nothing has happened. This is what Hallelujah is, damn it, you say all the time, we chant it, we chanted only two hours, even this, but look at them.”

我说：“Hallelujah！什么都没发生。这就是 Hallelujah 本来的样子，该死的，你们一直在说，我们唱诵它，我们只唱了两个小时，就这样，可你看看他们。”

He goes to everybody, ha says, ‘Hallelujah, Hallelujah…; he thought the whole congregation has gone mad. I said, “No, they have not gone mad, they have gone into the state of that Infinity, now they are very one pointed, they are very pure, you can’t help it, (?) so bring them down.”

他走到每个人面前，他说：“Hallelujah，Hallelujah……”他以为整个会众都疯了。我说：“不，他们没疯，他们进入了那个无限的状态，现在他们非常专注，他们非常纯净，你没办法，所以把他们带回来。”

mad, they have gone into the state of that Infinity, now they are very one pointed, they are very pure, you can’t help it, (?) so bring them down.”

疯了，他们进入了那个无限的状态，现在他们非常专注，他们非常纯净，你没办法，所以把他们带回来。”

Then he told me what to do. Then anyway I telephoned, we sent the car, we got the guy, he did the whole thing and then he asked me, he said, “My God, that channels are not pure. We didn’t purify them. We would have purified them, they would have chanted, they would have enjoyed, they would have stopped, they would have been in their control. But now they couldn’t be in their control because we just chanted them as they were. Word must have effect, because word is God. And that’s what Hallelujah is.”

然后他告诉我该怎么做。然后不管怎样我打了电话，我们派了车，我们把那个人接来，他做了整套东西，然后他问我，他说：“我的天，那些通道不纯净。我们没有净化它们。如果我们净化了它们，他们唱诵，他们会享受，他们会停下来，他们会在自己的掌控之中。但现在他们无法自控，因为我们只是照他们本来的样子唱诵。话语必然有作用，因为话语就是神。Hallelujah 就是这个。”

couldn’t be in their control because we just chanted them as they were. Word must have effect, because word is God. And that’s what Hallelujah is.”

无法自控，因为我们只是照他们本来的样子唱诵。话语必然有作用，因为话语就是神。Hallelujah 就是这个。”

Don’t sing just sacred songs, the secret of Infinity will be lost. And that’s what it is. Rosary. What is rosary in Christianity? To stimulate the meridian points. Because these are the tips of the antenna of left brain and right brain. That’s why rosary is nothing but create a rub. It just creates the rub on those antennas; there is nothing secret about it. But we make it as my thing and that knowledge to teach is gone. So we are going to chant this sound, right? Because it creates so much heat, in couple chants you are gone. But normally it is the expression of Om, O M or A U M. But when you meditatively create that sound it is… Aaaummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…

不要只唱神圣的歌，无限的秘密就会丢失。事情就是这样。念珠。基督教里的念珠是什么？是为了刺激那些经脉点。因为它们是左脑和右脑天线的尖端。所以念珠不过是制造一种摩擦。它只是在那些天线上制造摩擦，没有什么秘密可言。但我们把它变成我的东西，那门教导的知识就失传了。所以我们要唱诵这个声音，对吧？因为它会产生大量的热，唱几次你就没了。但通常它是 Om 的表达，O M 或 A U M。但当你带着冥想性去创造那个声音时，它是……Aaaummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…

are gone. But normally it is the expression of Om, O M or A U M. But when you meditatively create that sound it is… Aaaummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…

就没了。但通常它是 Om 的表达，O M 或 A U M。但当你带着冥想性去创造那个声音时，它是……Aaaummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…

It can go up to a minute. It vibrates your entire this whole system. All it takes you ten or eleven times you do it, that’s it. Then whatever you call God, this light and this and that, and I am and that is, is all gone. It gives you the Thuriya stage, highest state of meditation, then you know the unknown, see the unseen, but question is you can’t talk to a prejudiced mind, prejudice mind is limited, it has got its own God and that is what we call is idol worship. What is idol worship? Idol worship is not you put a God of stone and that. When you say it's my God, you are a idol worshipper. Because you are limiting God to you.

它可以持续长达一分钟。它振动你整个这个系统。你只需要做十次或十一次，就够了。然后不管你管神叫什么，这个光、这个那个，还有「我是」和「那个是」，全都消失了。它给你 Thuriya 阶段，最高的冥想状态，然后你就知道那未知的，看见那看不见的，但问题是你没法跟一个有偏见的心智说话，有偏见的心智是有限的，它有它自己的神，那就是我们所说的偶像崇拜。什么是偶像崇拜？偶像崇拜不是说你摆一尊石头做的神什么的。当你说「这是我的神」，你就是偶像崇拜者。因为你把神限制在你这里。

When you limit the Infinite to the finite and it doesn’t give you love and ecstasy of Infinity then you are limited, that’s what we call idol worship.

当你把无限限制成有限，而它不给你爱和无限带来的狂喜，那你就是有限的，这就是我们所说的偶像崇拜。

Guest: I want to ask you one more thing, Sikhism accepts all great religious teachers, leaders, including Jesus?

客人：我还想问你一件事，锡克教接受所有伟大的宗教导师、领袖，包括耶稣吗？

Yogiji: Everybody, oh yeah.

Yogiji：所有人，哦是的。

Guest: What do they think of Jesus? What do Sikhism… what do they say is the Christ?

客人：他们怎么看耶稣？锡克教……他们说基督是什么？

teachers, leaders, including Jesus?

导师、领袖，包括耶稣吗？

Yogiji: Everybody, oh yeah.

Yogiji：所有人，哦是的。

Guest: What do they think of Jesus? What do Sikhism… what do they say is the Christ?

客人：他们怎么看耶稣？锡克教……他们说基督是什么？

Yogiji: Christ is messenger of God who came to elevate the suffering of the humanity, gave them the truth, who gave them the goodness, any good thing you can say about him.

Yogiji：基督是神的使者，他来提升人类的苦难，给他们真理，给他们善，你能说的一切好话都可以用在他身上。

Guest: But not unique.

客人：但并不独特。

Yogiji: No, not this not, for those people unique, yes. But not unique for the… this is not the only way, no, no, no specification, no specification, this is it. As we respect Jesus, as Buddhists respect Buddha.

Yogiji：不，不是这个不，对那些人来说是独特的，是的。但对……这不是唯一的道路，不，不，不，没有特定性，没有特定性，就是这样。就像我们尊敬耶稣，就像佛教徒尊敬佛陀。

Guest: How would you distinguish Jesus from Mohammad? I mean as prophet…

客人：你会怎么区分耶稣和穆罕默德？我是说作为先知……

Yogiji: No, no, I’ll, I’ll say Jesus to a Christian and Mohammad to a Muslim. That’s what I have said. Because faith is to the faithful.

Yogiji：不，不，我会对基督徒说耶稣，对穆斯林说穆罕默德。我就是这么说的。因为信仰是给有信仰的人的。

as prophet…

作为先知……

Yogiji: No, no, I’ll, I’ll say Jesus to a Christian and Mohammad to a Muslim. That’s what I have said. Because faith is to the faithful.

Yogiji：不，不，我会对基督徒说耶稣，对穆斯林说穆罕默德。我就是这么说的。因为信仰是给有信仰的人的。

Guest: But you see Mohammad to a Muslim is not more than a prophet. But he didn’t want anyone to define him. But Jesus in accepting designation as Messiah or Christ, did seem to be something more and most Christian peoples think of him as something unique, different, than as a prophet. In other words they say they are biblical prophets, which might have been Moses and (?) and many other beautiful great teachers come to bring the people the thing you are suggesting. But that Christ is something more than that. He is an incarnation in the sense of God. In a deeper sense.

客人：但你看，对穆斯林来说，穆罕默德不过是一位先知。可他不想让任何人来定义他。而耶稣接受了弥赛亚或基督这个称号，看起来就不止于此，大多数基督徒都认为他是独特的，跟先知不一样。换句话说，他们说那些是圣经里的先知，可能是摩西和（？）以及许多其他美好的伟大导师，他们来把你说得那些东西带给人们。但那位基督不止于此。从更深的意义上说，他是神的化身。

Yogiji: Well, this is what we say; everyone is the incarnation of God. And transmigration and incarnation to us is when you act in truth, you are incarnation of God. When you act in lie then your transmigration happens, you go to the low. High and low to us is between truth and untruth.

Yogiji：嗯，我们就是这么说的：每个人都是神的化身。对我们来说，转世和化身是这样的——当你依真理而行，你就是神的化身。当你依谎言而行，转世就发生了，你就往下走。对我们来说，高与低就在真理与不真理之间。

you are incarnation of God. When you act in lie then your transmigration happens, you go to the low. High and low to us is between truth and untruth.

你就是神的化身。当你依谎言而行，转世就发生了，你就往下走。对我们来说，高与低就在真理与不真理之间。

Guest: And now tell me this. Is there any other, any other religious leader who is (?) that you can think of that had the same qualities as Jesus? The same who displayed similar qualities not only as teacher, not only as leader, but who had… is there one who had the simplicity and came as a humble servant of man in the sense not only to guide, guard…

客人：那现在告诉我这个。你还能想到别的、别的宗教领袖（？）有跟耶稣一样的品质吗？同样展现出类似品质的，不只是作为导师，不只是作为领袖，而是有……有没有一个人有那份单纯，作为人类谦卑的仆人而来，不只是引导、守护……

Yogiji: But to sacrifice…

Yogiji：而是去牺牲……

Guest: Sacrifice himself, let us say wash the feet of his disciples.

客人：牺牲自己，比如说给他的门徒洗脚。

Yogiji: Guru Ram Das did exactly the same thing.

Yogiji：Guru Ram Das 做的正是同样的事。

Guest: Did Guru Ram Das did this?

客人：Guru Ram Das 做过这个？

Yogiji: Guru Arjan was tortured five days on a hotplate, I mean Jesus was put on a cross; Guru Arjan was put on a hotplate and hot sand on him, five days and five nights. And all he said is, ‘God is great and it is His will, Hallelujah!’ Didn’t bother.

Yogiji：Guru Arjan 在热铁板上被折磨了五天，我是说耶稣被钉在十字架上；Guru Arjan 被放在热铁板上，热沙子撒在他身上，五天五夜。他说的只是：「神是伟大的，这是祂的意志，哈利路亚！」毫不在意。

Student: Guru Teg Bahadur…

学生：Guru Teg Bahadur……

Yogiji: Guru Teg Bahadur gave his head, he walked on humbly to king and said, “Don’t be cruel to change the religion of others, it is not a reality.”

Yogiji：Guru Teg Bahadur 献出了自己的头颅，他谦卑地走到国王面前说：「不要残忍地去改变别人的宗教，那不是真实的。」

And he said, “Well, what do you talk of others, I am going to change you.”

那人说：「你说别人干什么，我要改变的是你。」

“Don’t be cruel to change the religion of others, it is not a reality.”

「不要残忍地去改变别人的宗教，那不是真实的。」

And he said, “Well, what do you talk of others, I am going to change you.”

那人说：「你说别人干什么，我要改变的是你。」

He said, “Okay, go ahead.”

他说：“好，继续吧。”

They tortured him for twenty-one…

他们折磨了他二十一天……

… My head, so you know thereafter sent Aurangzeb the emperor to (?) he had such a turmoil to go through. In our history of Sikh Gurus, Guru Nanak was most humble, meek and the most beautiful person. Through his prayers what good happened are good, which you call miracle happens are unbelievable though you are all (?) today. And when…

……我的头，所以你知道后来派奥朗则布皇帝去（？）他经历了那样的动荡。在我们的锡克古茹历史中，Guru Nanak 是最谦卑、最温顺、最美好的人。通过他的祈祷，发生的好事就是好事，你们今天称之为奇迹的事，虽然你们都是（？），却令人难以置信。而当……

Guest: If he says such things (?) for instance you said I won’t leave you if you slap me on the cheek, I’ll slap you back for worse. Did they teach (?).

客人：如果他说这样的话（？）比如你说，如果你打我一巴掌，我不会离开你，我会更狠地打回去。他们教过（？）吗。

Yogiji: Yeah.

Yogiji：是的。

Guest: But you don’t follow it.

客人：但你并不遵循它。

Yogiji: No, no, we follow ten aspects of life, whereas Guru Nanak is the simplest love, Guru Angad is simplest what you call it devotion, Guru Amar Das is simple service, service I give you the example of service, to bathe his Guru he will walk twelve miles to get the water and will walk on back steps so that there may not be back towards the Guru and bring the water to bathe him.

Yogiji：不，不，我们遵循生命的十个面向，而 Guru Nanak 是最简单的爱，Guru Angad 是最简单的，你们称之为奉献，Guru Amar Das 是最简单的服务，服务——我给你们举服务的例子，为了给他的古茹洗澡，他会走十二英里取水，并且会倒着走，这样就不会背对古茹，然后把水带回来给他洗澡。

will walk twelve miles to get the water and will walk on back steps so that there may not be back towards the Guru and bring the water to bathe him.

会走十二英里取水，并且会倒着走，这样就不会背对古茹，然后把水带回来给他洗澡。

So twelve years he continuously did this service and each time he was given a turban to tie, so he tied the turban over turban over turban and when he was given Guruship, he was to take a bath and it was found out that in his head there is a puss and it's very unfortunate state of mind and Guru Angad himself called him and he said, “What are you doing? What you did?”

就这样十二年，他持续做这个服务，每次都会给他一条头巾让他缠上，所以他把头巾一条叠一条地缠上去，而当他被授予古茹之位时，他要沐浴，结果发现他头上有一个脓包，那是非常不幸的心智状态，Guru Angad 亲自叫他来，说：“你在做什么？你做了什么？”

He said, “Lord, you told me tie this turban, you never told me remove first and tie the other one and I tied it…” and there Guru Angad became so happy, he said, “Amar Das, whosoever shall not find a place if shall take your name, he will find the place with God.” He gave him blessing, blessing, blessing. In seconds everything got cured you know there was nothing big deal about it and it was such a happy symbolic service to which everybody is proud. It was at the time of Guru Har Gobind where he said, Miri and Piri. Unto God but Thy shall protect thyself in the name of God.

他说：“主啊，你叫我缠这条头巾，你从没叫我先取下来再缠另一条，我就缠上去了……”于是 Guru Angad 变得非常高兴，他说：“Amar Das，任何找不到位置的人，只要念你的名字，他就会在神那里找到位置。”他给了他祝福、祝福、祝福。几秒钟内一切就痊愈了，你知道这没什么大不了的，而这是如此令人欢喜的象征性服务，每个人都为之骄傲。那是在 Guru Har Gobind 的时代，他说，Miri 和 Piri。归于神，但你要以神之名保护自己。

Guest: Gobind Singh?

客人：Gobind Singh？

Yogiji: No, Har Gobind.

Yogiji：不，Har Gobind。

Guest: Oh Har Gobind!

客人：哦，Har Gobind！

said, Miri and Piri. Unto God but Thy shall protect thyself in the name of God.

说，Miri 和 Piri。归于神，但你要以神之名保护自己。

Guest: Gobind Singh?

客人：Gobind Singh？

Yogiji: No, Har Gobind.

Yogiji：不，Har Gobind。

Guest: Oh Har Gobind!

客人：哦，Har Gobind！

Yogiji: And seventh was householder, calm and peaceful, eighth was young, innocent nine year old and he healed the entire population of the city and he took away the entire disease on self and he gave his body and the whole town got saved, Delhi, town of Delhi at that time. It had small pox and plague and Guru, they came to the Guru and they said, “You know we can’t even lift the dead.”

Yogiji：第七位是居家者，平静又平和；第八位是个年幼、纯真的九岁孩子，他疗愈了整座城的人，把所有的病都转移到自己身上，他献出了自己的身体，整座城因此得救，德里，当时的德里城。那里有天花和瘟疫，人们来到古茹面前说：“你知道，我们连死者都抬不动了。”

He said, “Why to lift the dead? What do you want?”

他说：“为什么要抬死者？你们想要什么？”

He said, “Well, people are dying.”

他们说：“人们在死去啊。”

He said, “All right,” he lied down and in couple minutes he had all the small pox on him and plagues in his things and everybody in the town got up. And he left his body. And that… still that Gurdwara happens and it is written in the emperor’s own hand. This is what the…

他说：“好吧。”他躺了下来，几分钟之内，天花全到了他身上，瘟疫也进了他体内，城里所有人都站了起来。而他离开了自己的身体。那座谒师所至今还在，这件事还写在皇帝亲笔的手书上。这就是……

Guest: Would you call that a miracle from God?

客人：你会说那是来自神的奇迹吗？

Yogiji: Yeah, we don’t believe man does anything, so God does everything, man only can pray. And he sat in prayer that’s why he gave up his body.

Yogiji：是的，我们不相信人能做什么，一切都是神在做，人只能祈祷。他坐在祈祷中，所以才献出了自己的身体。

Guest: The emperor’s hand, Akbar… who?

客人：皇帝的手书，阿克巴……是谁？

does anything, so God does everything, man only can pray. And he sat in prayer that’s why he gave up his body.

能做什么，一切都是神在做，人只能祈祷。他坐在祈祷中，所以才献出了自己的身体。

Guest: The emperor’s hand, Akbar… who?

客人：皇帝的手书，阿克巴……是谁？

Yogiji: Yeah, it was the time of Jahangir. He called him to see him and he came and at that time Delhi totally broke up in the… I mean to say whole everybody was done.

Yogiji：是的，那是贾汉吉尔的时代。他召见他，他就来了，那时德里完全崩溃了……我是说所有人都完了。

Guest: (?) suffered, I am told (?) I have no idea.

客人：（？）受了苦，我听说（？）我不知道。

Yogiji: And Guru Gobind Singh you know suffered to the extend of… history of martyrdom stops at the seven year old son of Guru Gobind Singh and nine year old Baba Fateh Singh and (?) Singh you know they both were captured. And they were given every situation and they didn’t give in, so they were bricked alive. You know brick by brick, brick by brick and they just smiled. They didn’t care, (?) what do you mean; death doesn’t mean anything to us. So basically in Sikh religion death, sacrifice, service, that’s why our Lungar, we don’t have a congregation without food. We must feed everybody. And all sit equal. Nobody sits separate.

Yogiji：而 Guru Gobind Singh，你知道，他受的苦到了……殉道史停在 Guru Gobind Singh 七岁的儿子和九岁的 Baba Fateh Singh 以及（？）Singh，你知道他们俩都被抓了。他们被施加了各种情形，他们都不屈服，于是他们被活活砌进墙里。你知道，一块砖一块砖，一块砖一块砖，他们只是微笑。他们不在乎，（？）你什么意思；死亡对我们不算什么。所以基本上在锡克教里，死亡、牺牲、服务，这就是为什么我们的公共厨房，我们没有不供食物的会众。我们必须喂饱每一个人。所有人都平等地坐在一起。没有人单独坐。

Guest: And it's a free kitchen.

客人：而且那是免费的厨房。

Yogiji: Free kitchen.

Yogiji：免费的厨房。

Guest: That’s a marvelous idea.

客人：那是个了不起的主意。

Yogiji: Every, every…

Yogiji：每一个，每一个……

Guest: Not a mark of poverty, that’s a symbol of equality. That’s true.

客人：不是贫穷的标志，那是平等的象征。确实如此。

Yogiji: Free kitchen.

Yogiji：免费的厨房。

Guest: That’s a marvelous idea.

客人：那是个了不起的主意。

Yogiji: Every, every…

Yogiji：每一个，每一个……

Guest: Not a mark of poverty, that’s a symbol of equality. That’s true.

客人：不是贫穷的标志，那是平等的象征。确实如此。

Yogiji: In every Gurdwara, the Church, what you call, we call it Guru-Dwara, Guru’s house; you can’t have a congregation and not have a Lungar, free kitchen.

Yogiji：在每一座谒师所里，教堂，你们怎么叫，我们叫它 Guru-Dwara，古茹之家；你不可能有会众却没有公共厨房，免费的厨房。

Guest: What the word Singh is?

客人：Singh 这个词是什么意思？

Yogiji: Singh means the lion. As lion is among the beast, because lion has conquered every beast, so as a human you conquer your beast, that’s what singha means.

Yogiji：Singh 的意思是狮子。就像狮子在野兽之中，因为狮子征服了每一头野兽，所以作为人，你要征服你内在的野兽，这就是 singha 的意思。

Guest: (?) Sehajdaari...

客人：（？）Sehajdaari……

Yogiji: Sehajdhaari! Sehajdhaari means who has not had baptized himself and who has not full hair and everything. Because full hair is just for heavy protein, which we need in our state of ecstasy as you need a heavy water for the atomic energy. You need heavy protein and that comes to you from the hair of your beard and of your head. And that’s why in the night we put our hair down and braid them. In the morning we put them up at the solar center.

Yogiji：Sehajdhaari！Sehajdhaari 的意思是还没有受过洗礼、也没有留全发等等的人。因为全发就是为了大量的蛋白质，我们在狂喜的状态里需要它，就像原子能需要重水一样。你需要大量的蛋白质，而它来自你胡须和头发的蛋白质。所以晚上我们把头发放下来编成辫子。早上我们把它们盘到太阳中心。

Guest: Are you vegetarians?

客人：你们是素食者吗？

Yogiji: Yep!

Yogiji：是的！

Guest: But Sikhs are not necessarily vegetarian.

客人：但锡克教徒不一定都是素食者。

Yogiji: Well, those you know every religion has (?) principles, so they.

Yogiji：嗯，你知道每个宗教都有（？）原则，所以他们。

vegetarians?

素食者？

Yogiji: Yep!

Yogiji：是的！

Guest: But Sikhs are not necessarily vegetarian.

客人：但锡克教徒不一定都是素食者。

Yogiji: Well, those you know every religion has (?) principles, so they.

Yogiji：嗯，你知道每个宗教都有（？）原则，所以他们。

Guest: But there not supposed to be dietary restrictions necessarily?

客人：但他们不一定有饮食上的限制吧？

Yogiji: No, basically we are not supposed to eat meat because urea, urea is very terrible for meditation and we are a very meditating religion. So it doesn’t go along with that. You know all meat eating animals are disturbed, you never find them sitting in peace and that stillness with alkaline circulation of body, you have to have nine point alkaline in your body. You can’t have a acidity in your body and start meditating and create a fuss. We don’t do that. And that’s why Guru’s Lungar, which is the tradition is always vegetarian. It’s tasty, it’s beautiful, whatever you want to call it, but simply it is vegetarian, you can’t serve meat there.

Yogiji：不，基本上我们不该吃肉，因为尿素，尿素对冥想非常糟糕，而我们是一个很注重冥想的宗教。所以它跟这个不搭。你知道所有吃肉的动物都是不安的，你从来看不到它们安静地坐着，带着身体碱性的循环处在那种静止里，你的身体必须有九分的碱性。你不能身体带着酸性就开始冥想，还搞得一团糟。我们不那样做。所以古茹的公共厨房（Lungar），也就是那个传统，永远是素食的。它好吃，它漂亮，随你怎么说，但简单说它就是素食，你不能在那里供应肉。

Guest: (----)

客人：（----）

Yogiji: Equality. Woman is Khalsa now she is a Khalsa, baptized woman among us is exactly equal, she is a minister, she is a secretary general of the Khalsa Council, whatever she is. There is no distinction between man and a woman in Sikh religion as far as spirituality is concerned. They have been…

Yogiji：平等。女人现在是卡尔萨，她是卡尔萨，在我们中间受过洗礼的女人完全平等，她是牧师，她是卡尔萨委员会（Khalsa Council）的秘书长，随她是什么。就灵性而言，在锡克教里男人和女人没有区别。他们一直……

Khalsa Council, whatever she is. There is no distinction between man and a woman in Sikh religion as far as spirituality is concerned. They have been…

卡尔萨委员会，随她是什么。就灵性而言，在锡克教里男人和女人没有区别。他们一直……

Guest: (----)

客人：（----）

Yogiji: No, but at the time of… there is a one thing, which happened in Sikh religion, which has never happened in anything. Guru Gobind Singh when was nine year old when Guru Teg Bahadur was killed by the emperor in that onslaught conversion where he went and offered himself, what happened was Guru Gobind Singh was installed as Guru Gobind Rai. But after Guru Gobind Rai one day at the Baisakhi Day he came out and he said, “I need a head, I need…”

Yogi Bhajan：不，但是在……的时候，有一件事，发生在锡克教里，是别的任何地方从未发生过的。Guru Gobind Singh 当时九岁，Guru Teg Bahadur 被皇帝在那场逼迫改宗的暴行中杀害，他去献出了自己，之后发生的是，Guru Gobind Singh 被立为 Guru Gobind Rai。但在 Guru Gobind Rai 之后，有一天在拜萨基节，他走出来说：「我需要一颗头，我需要……」

(?) there were fifty-thousand or hundred thousand people there. He took out the sword and he said, “I need one man’s head.”

（？）那里有五万或十万人。他拔出剑说：「我需要一个人的头。」

So one Bhai Daya Singh came first, he said, “Sir, it is your head.”

于是第一个上来的是 Bhai Daya Singh，他说：「先生，这是你的头。」

He said, “Come in.”

他说：「进来。」

And after a while he came out with a bleeding sword and he said, “I need a second man.”

过了一会儿，他拿着一把带血的剑走出来，说：「我需要第二个人。」

So you know first, second… but five came out. So he took them in and after a while people thought Guru has gone crazy, he is becoming violent, whatever he thought and then five came out as I am sitting before you. So everybody said, “Why should not he offer his head?”

你知道，第一个、第二个……但出来了五个。他把他们带进去，过了一会儿，人们以为古茹疯了，他变得暴力了，不管他们怎么想，然后五个人走出来，就像我现在坐在你面前一样。于是大家都说：「他为什么不该献出他的头？」

he is becoming violent, whatever he thought and then five came out as I am sitting before you. So everybody said, “Why should not he offer his head?”

他变得暴力了，不管他们怎么想，然后五个人走出来，就像我现在坐在你面前一样。于是大家都说：「他为什么不该献出他的头？」

So fear of death Guru wanted to test and then he baptized them. He baptized them into Singh and Khalsa. And after that baptism he asked them to baptize him. So then they said, “We gave you a head, what you are going to give us?” I mean forget it. He said, “I’ll give you my entire self.”

所以古茹想考验对死亡的恐惧，然后他给他们施洗。他给他们施洗，使他们成为 Singh 和 Khalsa。施洗之后，他请他们给他施洗。于是他们说：「我们给了你一颗头，你要给我们什么？」我是说，算了吧。他说：「我会把我整个自己给你们。」

And they said, “All right, you think seventy-two hours, then we will take care of you if we find you all right.”

他们说：「好吧，你想 72 个小时，然后如果我们觉得你没问题，我们就来照顾你。」

That is called Sodhana, therefore anybody who comes us to be baptized; we ask him certain questions, ‘are you doing it because you want it? Are you doing it because you are conscious of it? Are you doing it because you seek it? Are you doing it because you think you believe it?’ You know every question and then we tell, all right, go and think about it then come back again if you need it, it's not that… because you must understand historically we have been persecuted to be converted and we stood conversion.

那就叫 Sodhana，所以任何人来找我们受洗，我们都会问他一些问题，「你做这件事是因为你想要它吗？你做这件事是因为你对它有觉知吗？你做这件事是因为你寻求它吗？你做这件事是因为你认为你相信它吗？」你知道，每一个问题，然后我们说，好吧，去想一想，如果你需要，再回来，不是那种……因为你必须从历史上理解，我们一直被迫害、被逼改宗，而我们顶住了改宗。

back again if you need it, it's not that… because you must understand historically we have been persecuted to be converted and we stood conversion.

如果你需要，再回来，不是那种……因为你必须从历史上理解，我们一直被迫害、被逼改宗，而我们顶住了改宗。

We don’t like conversion and therefore we don’t want to convert anybody. Therefore somebody seeks it, it is little difficult. Because we are not that kind of missionary that if people are sick and people are poor, we will go and help them and if they want to be Sikh we like to convert them. No. We go and help sick people and give them clothing and give them everything, and that’s it. Nothing beyond that. To us Hindu is as beautiful as a Buddhist is. Buddhist is as beautiful as Christian is because a Christian can come in a Gurdwara and can live there and eat and have fun, and nobody is going to ask them what is your religion!

我们不喜欢劝人改宗，所以我们不想让任何人改宗。因此，如果有人来寻求，那就有点难。因为我们不是那种传教士——如果人们生病了、穷困了，我们就去帮他们，如果他们想成为锡克教徒，我们就乐于让他们改宗。不。我们去帮助生病的人，给他们衣服，给他们一切，就这样。仅此而已。对我们来说，印度教徒和佛教徒一样美。佛教徒和基督徒一样美，因为一个基督徒可以走进谒师所（Gurdwara），住在那里，吃在那里，玩得开心，没有人会问他你是什么宗教！

A Muslim goes to Golden Temple and does his Namaz right in the premises of Golden Temple; nobody tells him what are you doing? He puts his Safa, his meditation carpet, he sits on that, he does his Namaz, nobody tells them…

一个穆斯林去金庙，就在金庙的范围内做他的Namaz；没有人告诉他你在干什么？他铺开他的Safa，他的冥想垫，坐在上面，做他的Namaz，没有人告诉他……

Guest: He better not turn his (?) on the ground so…

客人：他最好别把他的（？）转向地面，所以……

Yogiji: Yeah, that is there is a certain…

Yogiji：是的，那是有一个特定的……

Guest: They better know the… rather they better know the robes (?).

客人：他们最好知道……不如说他们最好知道那些袍子（？）。

not turn his (?) on the ground so…

别把他的（？）转向地面，所以……

Yogiji: Yeah, that is there is a certain…

Yogiji：是的，那是有一个特定的……

Guest: They better know the… rather they better know the robes (?).

客人：他们最好知道……不如说他们最好知道那些袍子（？）。

Yogiji: But also I tell you when they come and those who come there that much they know because the are lot of Muslims who worship the Sikh Gurus exactly, they are Muslims all right, peer Budan Shah, who gave his five hundred marines and four sons of his in the fight of Guru Gobind Singh. Their entire family comes to Anandpur Sahib.

Yogiji：但我也告诉你，当他们来的时候，那些到那里的人知道的就那么多，因为有很多穆斯林完全敬拜锡克古茹，他们确实是穆斯林，peer Budan Shah，他在Guru Gobind Singh的战斗中献出了他的五百名士兵和他的四个儿子。他们全家都来阿南德普尔·萨希卜（Anandpur Sahib）。

Guest: I won’t say we were really (?) I went in and photographed on the Golden Temple and also at other (?) we were invited, come do that by the president and so we will (?) really didn’t know and there was no way the photograph without turning away to the camera, I am turning and getting film and things… it's a book.

客人：我不会说我们真的（？）我进去在金庙拍了照，也在其他（？）我们被邀请，来拍那个，是主席邀请的，所以我们会（？）真的不知道，而且没有办法不转身对着相机拍照，我在转身、拿胶卷什么的……它是一本书。

(?) really didn’t know and there was no way the photograph without turning away to the camera, I am turning and getting film and things… it's a book.

（？）真的不知道，而且没有办法不转身对着相机拍照，我在转身、拿胶卷什么的……它是一本书。

Yogiji: The Guru, the holy Granth (?) is not a book, it is not a book. We believe it is a word of those, words uttered by those men of God who merge in the consciousness of God. Now there are Muslims peers in that, there are Hindus, there are non-Hindus, there are Sikh Gurus, so it is a combination of I am saying those permutation and combination. So that is given the Guruship, so nobody shall give his back to the Guru.

Yogiji：古茹，神圣的《圣格兰特经》（？）不是一本书，它不是一本书。我们相信它是那些话语，是那些融入神的意识的人说出的话语。现在那里面有穆斯林peer，有印度教徒，有非印度教徒，有锡克古茹，所以它是一个组合，我说的那些排列组合。所以那被赋予了古茹之位，所以没有人可以把背对着古茹。

Guest: (----)

客人：（----）

Yogiji: Yeah, and he is the only one man in the world who was allowed to photograph also. That is your only privilege.

Yogi Bhajan：是的，他是世界上唯一一个也被允许拍照的人。那是你唯一的特权。

Guest: Well, I (?) camera off and then…

客人：嗯，我（？）把相机关掉，然后……

Guest: And somebody (?) but it's like going up and wanted to take a piece of (?) you go walk up in between, somebody who will see is going to stop you.

客人：而且有人（？）但这就像走上去，想拿一块（？）你走到中间去，看到的人就会拦住你。

And somebody (?) but it's like going up and wanted to take a piece of (?) you go walk up in between, somebody who will see is going to stop you.

而且有人（？）但这就像走上去，想拿一块（？）你走到中间去，看到的人就会拦住你。

Yogiji: Oh traditionally among the entire India population in America we came here when the west was not America. This western part was not America, Sikhs came through the Mexico and they were all known here, California actually belongs to us. Still we have got huge chunks of land in the Imperial Valley and this Sacramento valley and they are all farmers and they are Sikhs from much earlier than even California became part of United States.

Yogi Bhajan：哦，传统上，在美国的全部印度人口中，我们是在西部还不属于美国的时候来到这里的。这片西部地区当时还不是美国，锡克人穿过墨西哥来到这里，他们在这里都很有名，加利福尼亚其实属于我们。至今我们在帝王谷和萨克拉门托谷还拥有大片土地，他们都是农民，都是锡克人，比加利福尼亚成为美国一部分还要早得多。

Guest: (----)

客人：（----）

this Sacramento valley and they are all farmers and they are Sikhs from much earlier than even California became part of United States.

萨克拉门托谷，他们都是农民，都是锡克人，比加利福尼亚成为美国一部分还要早得多。

Guest: (----)

客人：（----）

Yogiji: Oh we fought independent wars from San Francisco. And from British Columbia we took that (?) that warship you know to India to go and fight for the freedom, all the Sikhs were hanged and they were killed because the Japanese government gave the information and British were ready for it and all that. We have used this America for Indian independence for quite a decade. For twenty-five years and we are about eight million people in India, two and a half million to three million around the world, but everybody is very prosperous, well to do. It’s not… in America per capita income is about twelve thousand dollars per person.

Yogi Bhajan：哦，我们从旧金山打过独立战争。从英属哥伦比亚，我们把那艘（？）军舰你知道，开到印度去为自由而战，所有锡克人都被绞死、被杀害，因为日本政府提供了情报，英国人早就准备好了，诸如此类。我们利用这个美国来争取印度独立，长达十年之久。二十五年，我们在印度大约有八百万人，全世界大约两百五十万到三百万人，但每个人都很丰盛，过得很好。这不是……在美国，人均收入大约是每人一万二千美元。

Guest: And they own all the taxi cabs in Delhi I know that.

客人：而且我知道，德里的所有出租车都是他们的。

do. It’s not… in America per capita income is about twelve thousand dollars per person.

的。这不是……在美国，人均收入大约是每人一万二千美元。

Guest: And they own all the taxi cabs in Delhi I know that.

客人：而且我知道，德里的所有出租车都是他们的。

Yogiji: Oh transportation. In India Sikhs own almost transportation, all electric work and all machinery. They are highly mechanical, highly intelligent. I mean you give a Sikh just a sketch; this is the part of the car you want to do it, after two hours you have it (?) specification. They are very you know best farmers, engineers, farmers, electronic engineers, mechanical, space engineer, all this atomic energy, though the bosses are still Hindus, but underneath those who work will find them with turbans.

Yogi Bhajan：哦，运输业。在印度，锡克人几乎拥有全部运输业、所有电力工作和所有机械。他们非常擅长机械，非常聪明。我的意思是，你给一个锡克人一张草图；这是你想做的汽车零件，两个小时后你就有了（？）规格。他们你知道，是最好的农民、工程师、农民、电子工程师、机械工程师、太空工程师，所有原子能领域，虽然老板仍然是印度教徒，但底下干活的人，你会发现他们戴着缠头巾。

Guest: Oh it's a marvelous treasure of brotherhood in Sikhism. It's really outstanding and a kind of helping, wonderful, robust, wonderful (?) you know.

客人：哦，这是锡克教中兄弟情谊的奇妙宝藏。它真的很杰出，是一种帮助，美妙、强健、美妙（？）你知道。

Oh it's a marvelous treasure of brotherhood in Sikhism. It's really outstanding and a kind of helping, wonderful, robust, wonderful (?) you know.

哦，这是锡克教中兄弟情谊的奇妙宝藏。它真的很杰出，是一种帮助，美妙、强健、美妙（？）你知道。

Yogiji: Saint and a Soldier, Sant Sipahi, the word for a Sikh is if you want to have some definition of performance about a Sikh is it is a Sant-Sipahi, Saint and a soldier blended together in equilibrium, fifty-fifty. It's not this, it's not that. When it comes to work, he is a worker. When it comes to defending, he is a soldier. But the problem is one thing you must understand how peaceful we are, Indian Army has never crossed Indian border, because still we are in majority part of the army and we don’t believe in offense. But we are honest to defense. I mean it's very difficult to cross a Sikh regiment, today the Second World War and the free world owes to us.

Yogiji：圣人和士兵，Sant Sipahi，如果你想对锡克人有一些关于表现的界定，这个词就是 Sant-Sipahi，圣人和士兵以平衡融合在一起，五十五十。不是这个，也不是那个。该工作时，他是工作者。该防卫时，他是士兵。但问题是，有一件事你必须明白我们有多和平，印度军队从未越过印度边界，因为我们在军队中仍占大多数，而且我们不相信进攻。但我们对防卫是诚实的。我的意思是，要越过一个锡克团是非常困难的，今天第二次世界大战和自由世界都欠我们的。

You are America and Europe is Europe and everything is everything because of the Sikh Regiment.

你们是美洲，欧洲是欧洲，一切都是一切，都是因为锡克团。

the Second World War and the free world owes to us.

第二次世界大战和自由世界都欠我们的。

You are America and Europe is Europe and everything is everything because of the Sikh Regiment.

你们是美洲，欧洲是欧洲，一切都是一切，都是因为锡克团。

We dug out (?) in Africa like you put out mushrooms because Sikh soldiers were so hard nut that they could chew the trees and still (?) they can hundred and eighteen degree temperature they run the tanks and have no Sun strokes and those were certain elements and in the zero minus twenty, zero Fahrenheit temperature of Germany they defeated the Germans, that was the crushing defeat, which has a history. That’s why every American or every European if he knows (?) they are great soldiers. Because when it came to democracy, defense of democracy, at that time actually the Second World War, we wanted our freedom. Twice as people we have been betrayed by the British, they promised.

我们在非洲挖出（？），就像你种出蘑菇一样，因为锡克士兵是如此硬核，他们能嚼树，而且仍然（？）他们能在118度高温下开坦克，却没有中暑，那些是某些因素，而在德国零下二十度、华氏零度的温度里，他们击败了德国人，那是一场碾压性的失败，那是有历史的。这就是为什么每个美国人或每个欧洲人，如果他知道（？），他们都是伟大的士兵。因为当涉及民主、保卫民主时，那时其实就是第二次世界大战，我们想要我们的自由。作为人民，我们被英国人背叛了两次，他们承诺过。

Because Sikh empire was a very successful empire and British took it with a treachery.

因为锡克帝国是一个非常成功的帝国，而英国人用背叛夺走了它。

Guest: And after they gifted the Kohinoor Diamond and all that stuff?

客人：而且在他们送出Kohinoor钻石和所有那些东西之后？

Sikh empire was a very successful empire and British took it with a treachery.

锡克帝国是一个非常成功的帝国，而英国人用背叛夺走了它。

Guest: And after they gifted the Kohinoor Diamond and all that stuff?

客人：而且在他们送出Kohinoor钻石和所有那些东西之后？

Yogiji: Yeah, that was a treachery, that was a treachery, and this because prince you know to… they what they said is he should come to London to study and the Khalsa Darbar agreed to it. And once he was in England they usurped the entire Punjab. That was the treachery. And thereafter it was written agreement that when he becomes eighteen year old the empire will be returned, but it was never returned thereafter and then in the Second World War when the British was losing terribly they said if the Sikh regiment under the Patiala and all those state regiment there were (?) states there, if they help at this time to British Empire and if they win the war we will return the empire.

Yogi Bhajan：是的，那是一场背叛，那是一场背叛，而这因为王子你知道……他们说的是他应该来伦敦学习，卡尔萨法庭同意了。而一旦他到了英格兰，他们就篡夺了整个旁遮普。那就是背叛。之后又签了书面协议，说等他满十八岁时就会归还帝国，但之后从未归还，然后在第二次世界大战中，当英国惨败时，他们说如果帕蒂亚拉下的锡克军团和所有那些邦的军团——那里有（？）邦——如果他们在此时帮助大英帝国，如果他们赢得战争，我们就会归还帝国。

all those state regiment there were (?) states there, if they help at this time to British Empire and if they win the war we will return the empire.

所有那些邦的军团——那里有（？）邦——如果他们在此时帮助大英帝国，如果他们赢得战争，我们就会归还帝国。

So on that context after every four Sikhs we gave one in the army and they rooted out (?) in the Africa. Totally defeated him. And then the advance of Germany in Europe was terrible and there the Sikh regiments were employed and they because it was very cold and it was impossible for the regiment, from the European regiment to stand that weather. But these are very weatherproof people you know when they get into the battle. So that was a very crushing defeat so finally then we gave in and when it comes to giving you know British showed a different tone. And lot of time that difficulty… after all you must understand we are not a huge people majority we are only eight million.

所以在那个背景下，每四个锡克人中我们交出一个参军，他们在非洲根除了（？）。彻底击败了他。然后德国在欧洲的推进很可怕，在那里锡克军团被派上用场，他们因为天气非常寒冷，欧洲军团不可能承受那种天气。但这些人非常耐天气，你知道，当他们进入战斗时。所以那是一场非常惨重的失败，所以最后我们让步了，而到了要给予的时候，你知道英国人露出了不同的腔调。很多时候那种困难……毕竟你必须明白我们不是一个庞大的民族，我们只有八百万。

And eight million is not a… not a big number. So but they are very prominent in the sense they are brave, they are prosperous, they are intelligent.

而八百万不是……不是一个大数字。但他们非常突出，因为他们勇敢，他们丰盛，他们聪明。

Guest: You think they would really like to have a separate state too?

客人：你觉得他们真的会想要一个单独的邦吗？

in the sense they are brave, they are prosperous, they are intelligent.

因为他们勇敢，他们丰盛，他们聪明。

Guest: You think they would really like to have a separate state too?

客人：你觉得他们真的会想要一个单独的邦吗？

Yogiji: Yeah, now they have started thinking about that and talking about that. Well, if you look into the prophecy, the Bhavish Puran, which is four thousand years written, it is not the time of Sikh religion yet. To that prophecy the religion of Nanak, should start taking grounds in the world in twenty eleven.

Yogi Bhajan：是的，现在他们已经开始思考这件事并谈论这件事了。好吧，如果你看看预言，《未来往世书》（Bhavish Puran），那是四千年前写的，现在还不是锡克宗教的时代。根据那个预言，那纳克的宗教应该从二十一一（2011）年开始在世界上扎根。

Guest: Twenty eleven?

客人：二十一一（2011）？

Yogiji: Yeah. So there are eleven plus twenty-five more years, yet to come. Oh thank you.

Yogi Bhajan：是的。所以还有十一加二十五年，还没到。哦，谢谢。

Guests: Thank you very much.

客人们：非常感谢。

Yogiji: I am willing to accept if that is true.

Yogi Bhajan：如果那是真的，我愿意接受。

Guest: (?) danger in which you fix too much emotion and not…

客人：（？）危险在于你投入太多情绪而不……

Yogiji: Religion is meant to clarify the emotions as fire is to clarify the butter.

Yogiji：宗教是用来澄清情绪的，就像火用来澄清黄油一样。

Guest: I missed the beginning of this, what is your (?).

客人：我错过了开头，你说的是什么（？）。

Yogiji: What I was saying is on the path we walk, we first walk with the basic emotion towards that path and as through the emotional experience we walk and walk, our emotions get purer and purer and then we find a devotion. Whereas father says emotions have got nothing to do with religion.

Yogiji：我说的是，在我们行走的路上，我们首先带着基本的情绪走向那条路，随着我们在情绪体验中走啊走，我们的情绪变得越来越纯净，然后我们发现了一种奉爱。而父亲说情绪和宗教没有任何关系。

Guest: He didn’t say that, no he didn’t say that.

客人：他没这么说，不，他没这么说。

and then we find a devotion. Whereas father says emotions have got nothing to do with religion.

然后我们发现了一种奉爱。而父亲说情绪和宗教没有任何关系。

Guest: He didn’t say that, no he didn’t say that.

客人：他没这么说，不，他没这么说。

Yogiji: Something. Yeah.

Yogiji：差不多吧。是的。

Guest: (------)

客人：（------）

Yogiji: No, no, I never said everything. I never said everything, I said first initial is crawling, and crawling and walking and running and then becoming a athlete and then becoming a champion. Step by step, because the first scripture in Sikh religion is Japji, and it has Pauri, Pauri means step. So you walk step by step.

Yogiji：不，不，我从没说过一切。我从没说过一切，我说最初是爬，爬了再走，走了再跑，然后成为一个运动员，然后成为一个冠军。一步一步来，因为锡克教的第一部经典是 Japji，里面有 Pauri，Pauri 的意思是台阶。所以你要一步一步地走。

Guest: (----)

客人：（----）

Yogiji: For a child if you don’t relate to its emotional aspect you will lose him. That is why today Christianity is losing the young people whatever they call is losing because the preacher, the teacher, he doesn’t relate to their emotions. It is it, this is what the Jesus said, you believe it or you don’t. You know last night I had the greatest experience of my forty-seven years. When I went to meditate and I talked to her and I said when I speak why these people emotionally react to me? And Premka sitting down very comfortably told me that you don’t understand one thing.

Yogiji：对一个孩子来说，如果你不触及他的情绪层面，你就会失去他。这就是为什么今天基督教正在失去年轻人，不管他们怎么称呼，正在失去，因为传道人、老师，他不触及他们的情绪。就是这样，这就是耶稣说的，你信或不信。你知道昨晚我有了四十七年来最伟大的体验。我去冥想，我跟她说话，我说为什么我讲话的时候这些人会有情绪反应？Premka 很舒服地坐着告诉我，有一件事你不明白。

I said when I speak why these people emotionally react to me? And Premka sitting down very comfortably told me that you don’t understand one thing. You speak from the experience level but you are basically a heathen and I accepted her version and…

我说为什么我讲话的时候这些人会有情绪反应？Premka 很舒服地坐着告诉我，有一件事你不明白。你是从体验的层面讲话，但你本质上是个异教徒，我接受了她的说法，然后……

Guest: Nobody told you that?

客人：没人告诉过你那个？

Yogiji: Yep, yep, yeah and in the morning when I was meditating I got the same experience, which I got five years ago, which I think was a revelation to me. Five years ago I was meditating, after I finished my meditation…

Yogiji：是的，是的，对，然后早上我冥想的时候，我得到了同样的体验，那是我五年前得到的，我觉得那对我来说是一次启示。五年前我在冥想，结束冥想之后……

I don’t dream that’s the unfortunate part, I can’t relieve myself of any subconscious thought but I do get a vision and I got five years ago a huge ball of light, you can’t imagine, I can’t explain it to you how big and I enjoyed that, I enjoyed that seeing in my self and this morning I exactly enjoyed that, it was much brighter much bigger, and the word came to me, ‘blessed are the heathens, they have no limit of the faith’ and when she came next morning to me, I said, “Look, something in me I want to share with you, which I am going to share with the entire congregation, that blessed are eye of the heathen who has no faith of limit…”

我不做梦，这就是不幸的地方，我无法摆脱任何潜意识里的念头，但我会得到一种景象，五年前我看到一个巨大的光球，你无法想象，我无法向你解释它有多大，我很享受那个，我很享受在自己内在看到它，而今天早上我完完全全享受了那个，它更明亮、更巨大，然后那句话来到我这里，「那些异教徒有福了，他们的信仰没有界限」，当她第二天早上来到我这里，我说：「看，我内在有些东西我想和你分享，我要和整个会众分享，那些异教徒的眼睛有福了，他们的信仰没有界限……」

me I want to share with you, which I am going to share with the entire congregation, that blessed are eye of the heathen who has no faith of limit…”

我想和你分享，我要和整个会众分享，那些异教徒的眼睛有福了，他们的信仰没有界限……」

because I can love Jesus Christ better than anybody who claims himself to be Christian.

因为我能比任何自称基督徒的人更好地爱耶稣基督。

And I believe that he has done for humanity much more than people even give him his due. But if this is the version of thing that until the non-tolerance that part because history has a effect on Sikhs, but we lost everything in persecution. We as a religion on the top most of persecution…

我相信他为人类所做的，远远超过人们甚至给予他的应有回报。但如果这就是事情的那个版本，直到那种不宽容的那部分，因为历史对锡克人有影响，但我们在迫害中失去了一切。我们作为一个宗教，处在迫害的最顶端……

so somebody if slanders a Sikh or somebody pokes a Sikh or somebody insults a Sikh, it is not what bothers a Sikh at all because how worst you can be persecuted when our fifth Guru was put on a hot burning plate for five days and five days hot burning sand was poured on his head continuously and he sat meditatingly and when a Muslim peer came to him and asked him, “If you can’t do something, let me do something.”

所以如果有人诽谤一个锡克人，或者有人戳一个锡克人，或者有人侮辱一个锡克人，这根本不会困扰一个锡克人，因为当我们的第五位古茹被放在灼热的铁板上五天，灼热的沙子连续五天倒在他头上，他坐在那里冥想，当一个穆斯林同行来到他面前问他：「如果你做不了什么，让我来做点什么。」

on his head continuously and he sat meditatingly and when a Muslim peer came to him and asked him, “If you can’t do something, let me do something.”

灼热的沙子连续倒在他头上，他坐在那里冥想，当一个穆斯林同行来到他面前问他：「如果你做不了什么，让我来做点什么。」

And all he said is, “You have not learnt something that everything is done by God and we are only the observer of the whole thing.” and seven year old child of Guru Gobind Singh when was bricked alive with the nine-year old and brick by brick they will go with the cement you know and when it came to hear to him, he looked around last time he could only turn his neck and he saw the elder had a tear in his eyes and he said, “Are you afraid?”

他所说的只是：「你还没有学到，一切都是由神完成的，我们只是这整件事的观察者。」而 Guru Gobind Singh 七岁的孩子，当他和九岁的那个一起被活活砌进墙里，一块砖一块砖地，你知道，用水泥砌上去，当消息传到他那里，他最后一次环顾四周，他只能转动脖子，他看到年长的那个眼中有泪，他说：「你害怕吗？」

He said, “No, I am mad, I am angry.”

他说：「不，我疯了，我愤怒了。」

He said, “What for?”

他说：「为什么？」

He said, “You came later, you are going first, I am came first, I have to go later, this is how they chose this way.” That’s all I have to explain to you.

他说：「你来得晚，你先走，我来得早，我得后走，他们就是这样选择了这条路。」这就是我要向你们解释的全部。

“You came later, you are going first, I am came first, I have to go later, this is how they chose this way.” That’s all I have to explain to you.

“你来得晚，却先走；我先来，就得后走，他们就是这样选的。”我要跟你们解释的就这些。

I mean to say what I am trying to explain in the basic, our existence, sacrifice and death we have to give for our existence. But when we had the empire, Sikh Empire at the time of Ranjit Singh, we were absolutely tolerant of everybody. We had not a single record in the rule of those years, not to talk of persecution or even say louder in voice to anybody of any religion. To me I would like to rather than to share with you something I like to share to myself something, which you can explain. This I am the holy, I am holier than Thou, that is a God has created everybody equally in His own image and everything is… because basic Sikh practice are based on Gurbani.

我想说的是，我试着解释的根本，我们的存在，为了存在，我们必须付出牺牲与死亡。但当我们拥有帝国，Ranjit Singh 时代的锡克帝国，我们对所有人都绝对宽容。那些年的统治里，没有一条记录，别说迫害，连对任何宗教的人大声说话都没有。对我来说，与其跟你们分享什么，我更想跟自己分享一些东西，你们可以解释。这个「我神圣，我比你神圣」，那是神按自己的形象平等创造了每个人，一切都……因为锡克教的基本修持都基于 Gurbani。

am holier than Thou, that is a God has created everybody equally in His own image and everything is… because basic Sikh practice are based on Gurbani.

我比你神圣，那是神按自己的形象平等创造了每个人，一切都……因为锡克教的基本修持都基于 Gurbani。

Sikh religion if you want to call it religion has a very powerful sacred thing in it, which scientifically through the power of instrument can be proved and that is what in the western world intelligentsia likes it and that is the writings of Siri Guru Granth. Sayings of the Siri Guru Granth, which individual reads and the language is Gurmukhi. So the sound track has such a combination that’s what I explained to you last night because I was told I am making God complicated.

锡克教，如果你想称它为宗教，里面有一件非常强大的神圣之物，它可以科学地通过仪器的力量被证明，这就是西方世界的知识阶层喜欢它的原因，那就是《圣格兰特经》的文字。《圣格兰特经》的言语，个人去读，语言是 Gurmukhi。所以那音轨有这样一种组合，就是我昨晚跟你们解释的，因为有人告诉我，我把神搞复杂了。

But the only thing, which I understand is that a man of a ordinary walk because there was a one illiterate farmer he came to Siri Guru Arjan Dev Ji, the fifth master and he said, “You have said Japji, and we couldn’t remember that, now you have said Sukhmani. The essence of giving people happiness, bliss and peace and it is in twenty-four Pauris. Who is going to remember all that long thing?”

但唯一我明白的是，一个普通人，因为有一个不识字的农夫，他来到第五位古茹 Siri Guru Arjan Dev Ji 面前，他说：“你说了 Japji，我们记不住，现在你又说了 Sukhmani。给人快乐、极乐与平安的精髓，就在二十四个小节（Pauri）里。那么长的一大篇，谁记得住？”

And Guru said, “You want to remember it, you can be blessed with that.”

古茹说：“你想记住它，你就能得到那份祝福。”

it is in twenty-four Pauris. Who is going to remember all that long thing?”

就在二十四个小节（Pauri）里。那么长的一大篇，谁记得住？”

And Guru said, “You want to remember it, you can be blessed with that.”

古茹说：“你想记住它，你就能得到那份祝福。”

He said, “I have come to you and I can be blessed, what about those who cannot come to you? I mean to say I simply want to exactly know that if I cannot… I am not a learned man, I am not a literary person, how I am going to learn all that beautiful scripture you have said and it's beautiful, I have heard it” and Guru said, “By hearing it, it purifies the man’s soul.”

他说：“我来到你面前，我能得到祝福，那些来不了你面前的人呢？我是说，我只想知道，如果我不能……我不是个有学问的人，我不是个文人，我怎么去学你所说的那整部美丽的经典，它很美，我听过。”古茹说：“光是听，它就能净化人的灵魂。”

And he said, “Suppose I can’t hear it?”

他说：“假如我听不到呢？”

I mean to say he was totally insisting on something confessional and Guru said, “If you can even read one sutra, and repeat it, it will work for you.”

我的意思是说，他完全坚持某种忏悔式的东西，而古茹说：“哪怕你只能读一节经，并且重复它，它就会对你起作用。”

I mean to say he was totally insisting on something confessional and Guru said, “If you can even read one sutra, and repeat it, it will work for you.”

我的意思是说，他完全坚持某种忏悔式的东西，而古茹说：“哪怕你只能读一节经，并且重复它，它就会对你起作用。”

Entire Sikh religion, which has given a ordinary human being the power to kiss death with a smile and power to become fearless and power to tolerate everybody else and power to defend himself and his grace and thought of living for a Sikh under heavy persecution that life in disgrace is worst than that. This whole phenomenon, I think the strength, I wonder sometime myself, from where these ordinary Hindus and Muslims and Christians and Buddhists and all that who turn, who accept Sikhism, from where they get the strength.

整个锡克教，它给了普通人一种力量，让他能微笑着亲吻死亡，让他变得无所畏惧，让他能容忍其他所有人，让他能捍卫自己和他的优雅，也让一个锡克人在严酷迫害下仍想着活下去——因为对他们来说，屈辱地活着比死更糟。这整个现象，我想这份力量，我有时自己都纳闷，这些普通的印度教徒、穆斯林、基督徒、佛教徒以及所有那些转而接受锡克教的人，他们从哪里得到这份力量。

from where these ordinary Hindus and Muslims and Christians and Buddhists and all that who turn, who accept Sikhism, from where they get the strength.

这些普通的印度教徒、穆斯林、基督徒、佛教徒以及所有那些转而接受锡克教的人，他们从哪里得到这份力量。

It is from the baptism of the double-edged sword and then I said, “Well, baptism is baptism, but there is a one thing, which I have found here in western world through the (?) not through revelation that any person who recites the Gurbani and stimulates himself to a very vastness of his spirit…” as I was explaining to you Hallelujah, in Christianity the sound Hallelujah is said in a Nad Yoga exactly does the thing as a sutra of Gurbani does. There is a one comparative situation to which I understand, because there are eighty-four meridian points on the upper palate and my friends with beard, we call it Taalu and Pataalu. This is a total science in Taalu and Pataalu.

它来自双刃剑的点化，然后我说：“好吧，点化就是点化，但有一件事，是我在西方世界通过（？）而不是通过启示发现的，那就是任何人只要唱诵Gurbani，把自己激发到他灵性的那种浩瀚之中……”就像我跟你解释过的Hallelujah，在基督教里，Hallelujah这个音是在一种音流瑜伽（Nad Yoga）中念出来的，它起的作用和Gurbani的一节经完全一样。有一个可比较的情况是我能理解的，因为上颚上有84个经脉点，我的那些留胡子的朋友，我们把它叫做Taalu和Pataalu。Taalu和Pataalu里有一整套科学。

The Earth consciousness of love and live and creativity and Taalu is the higher consciousness of God and ether and whatever you want to call it different names, Supreme consciousness, Bahaulla, laa-illah, to me it's a sound, now it will offend a Muslim.

爱、生活、创造力的地球意识，而Taalu是神和以太的更高意识，随你想怎么叫它，不同的名字，至高意识，Bahaulla，laa-illah，对我来说它就是一个音，现在这会冒犯一个穆斯林。

ether and whatever you want to call it different names, Supreme consciousness, Bahaulla, laa-illah, to me it's a sound, now it will offend a Muslim.

以太，随你想怎么叫它，不同的名字，至高意识，Bahaulla，laa-illah，对我来说它就是一个音，现在这会冒犯一个穆斯林。

I as a Yogi will offend a Muslim if I ask him you do not know how to say laa-illah. I’ll definitely offend him and I know that, because it's a Laa sound and it is a sound, which you cannot speak with a tongue but you have to rotate the tongue with the power of the breath as I was relating last night that in India hardly anybody knows how to create the sound of Om. Om is not a word you can say Om, Om, Om, that’s what I was explaining last night, it is a sound, which comes through the Trikuti, it vibrates your entire palate of the brain, it totally…

作为一个瑜伽士，如果我问一个穆斯林，你不知道怎么说 laa-illah，我就会冒犯他。我肯定会冒犯他，这我知道，因为那是一个 Laa 的音，它是一个音，你不能用舌头说出来，你必须用呼吸的力量去转动舌头，就像我昨晚讲的那样，在印度几乎没有人知道怎么发出 Om 的音。Om 不是一个词，你不能说 Om、Om、Om，这就是我昨晚解释的，它是一个音，它从中脉（Trikuti）出来，它振动你整个上颚和大脑，它完全……

and when I talk about the pineal and pituitary gland and the secretion of the higher HL(LH) secretion in the pituitary to the bloodstream, people think I am imagining sometime because they don’t have that experiment we have done.

而当我谈到松果体和脑垂体，以及脑垂体向血液中分泌更高的 HL(LH) 分泌物时，人们有时以为我在想象，因为他们没有做过我们做过的那个实验。

HL(LH) secretion in the pituitary to the bloodstream, people think I am imagining sometime because they don’t have that experiment we have done.

脑垂体向血液中分泌 HL(LH) 分泌物，人们有时以为我在想象，因为他们没有做过我们做过的那个实验。

Whereas we are laying everything what we are doing with the institution in experiment because basically you have to understand there maybe a teeny-tiny skinny person who by no features of his complexity and activity maybe totally very lazy, rejecting everything, freeloader, I went to US, United States Academy of where they train their priests, what they call them Chaplains and the in charge chief chaplain was a rabbi who came to study with us for ten days and then in return he invited me to come and address his group of chaplains, which were Catholics, Protestants and those who are to go on army duty. He wanted me to give them a talk. And by introducing me he said something very beautiful.

而我们做的一切，连同这个机构所做的一切，都是在实验里进行的，因为根本上你必须明白，也许有一个瘦瘦小小的人，从他的复杂性和活动来看毫无特征，也许他完全很懒，拒绝一切，白吃白喝，我去过美国，美国的那所学院，他们训练他们的神职人员，他们管他们叫随军牧师，那位主管的首席随军牧师是一位拉比，他来跟我们学习了 10 天，然后作为回报，他邀请我去向他的随军牧师团体讲话，那些人里有天主教徒、新教徒，还有那些要去做军队工作的人。他想让我给他们讲一讲。在介绍我的时候，他说了一些非常美的话。

Catholics, Protestants and those who are to go on army duty. He wanted me to give them a talk. And by introducing me he said something very beautiful.

天主教徒、新教徒，还有那些要去做军队工作的人。他想让我给他们讲一讲。在介绍我的时候，他说了一些非常美的话。

He said, “In the course of our time there were beautiful diamonds, gems and rubies, which we spread and got lost into the mud of our unconscious and a man came from India, he picked them up, took away their flaws, clean them out and has made them bright and brilliant that even we are proud of it, somewhat jealous that he took away from us, somewhat proud that they are very radiant and shining. So I present to you so and so.”

他说：“在我们的时代里，曾有美丽的钻石、宝石和红宝石，我们把它们散播出去，它们却丢失在我们无意识的泥里，然后一个人从印度来了，他把它们捡起来，去掉它们的瑕疵，把它们清理干净，让它们变得明亮、璀璨，连我们都为它感到骄傲，有点嫉妒，因为他把它们从我们这里拿走了，又有点骄傲，因为它们非常光芒、闪耀。所以我把某某人介绍给你们。”

And I later on in my conversation I told him, “Rabbi whatever I did, why don’t you do it too?” I mean to say what is there the limit?

后来在谈话中我对他说：“拉比，无论我做了什么，你为什么不做呢？”我的意思是说，哪里有什么限制呢？

so and so.”

某某人。”

And I later on in my conversation I told him, “Rabbi whatever I did, why don’t you do it too?” I mean to say what is there the limit? Because when I met Sardar Swarn Singh, our defense minister, he was foreign affairs minister, he came to see me here in personal talk, he said to me, he said, “Yogiji, there is a difference between spiritual world and political world, because in political world you have to be one defense minister, one foreign minister, one prime minister and you are always ready to be cut down or pulled down are done, but in spiritual world there is no limit, you flow your spirit and there are lot of people who can follow you and it can happen.”

后来我在谈话中对他说：“拉比，不管我做了什么，你为什么不做呢？”我的意思是，这有什么限制呢？因为当我见到 Sardar Swarn Singh，我们的国防部长时，他当时是外交部长，他来这里看我，私下交谈，他对我说，他说：“Yogiji，灵性世界和政治世界之间有区别，因为在政治世界里，你必须是一个国防部长、一个外交部长、一个总理，而你总是随时准备被砍倒或被拉下台，但在灵性世界里没有限制，你流动你的灵，有很多人可以跟随你，这是可以发生的。”

So in the world of spirit or the spiritual world it is Infinity.

所以在灵的世界或灵性世界里，它是无限。

Guest: Do you (?) see this here (?) these other ministries?

客人：你（？）看到这里（？）这些其他的部门吗？

Yogiji: What do you mean by word (?)?

Yogiji：你说的这个词（？）是什么意思？

Guest: That if the… that if (?) motivational force with (?) of Infinity.

客人：那就是如果……那就是如果（？）动机力量带着（？）无限。

Yogiji: True, true, because I basically…

Yogiji：对，对，因为我基本上……

Guest: I had trouble, I hear you separating the spiritual world and the world.

客人：我有困难，我听到你把灵性世界和世界分开。

force with (?) of Infinity.

力量带着（？）无限。

Yogiji: True, true, because I basically…

Yogiji：对，对，因为我基本上……

Guest: I had trouble, I hear you separating the spiritual world and the world.

客人：我有困难，我听到你把灵性世界和世界分开。

Yogiji: No, no, no, I like to explain myself. There is nothing in matter, form, action, reaction, existence and non-existence, which is not the work of the spirit.

Yogiji：不，不，不，我喜欢解释我自己。在物质、形式、行动、反应、存在和非存在中，没有任何东西不是灵的工作。

Guest: And the spirit (?) this world to through us, through everything. Not to us, through everything.

客人：而灵（？）这个世界通过我们，通过一切。不是对我们，是通过一切。

Yogiji: I am not willing to limit that I am spiritual and somebody who is persecuting me is not spiritual.

Yogiji：我不愿意限制说我是灵性的，而某个迫害我的人不是灵性的。

Guest: I can (?) I can give you same (?).

客人：我可以（？）我可以给你同样的（？）。

Yogiji: No, no, not only I say it I experienced it. Because when Bhai Mani Singh was asked to be cut down limb by limb, and the executor took him and he took his first thumb and wanted to cut here, he stopped him, he said, “Wait!”

Yogiji：不，不，不只是我说它，我体验过它。因为当 Bhai Mani Singh 被要求被一块一块地砍掉时，行刑者抓住他，他抓住他的第一个拇指，想在这里砍，他阻止了他，他说：“等等！”

He said, “What do you mean wait?”

他说：“你说等等是什么意思？”

He said, “You are not obeying your duty and you are not doing the right action, it's a wrong Karma.”

他说：“你没有服从你的职责，你没有做正确的行动，这是错误的 Karma。”

He said, “What do you mean by wrong Karma?”

他说：“你说错误的 Karma 是什么意思？”

He said, “You have been ordered to cut me limb by limb. Is it true? Joint by joint.”

他说：“你被命令一块一块地砍我。是真的吗？一个关节一个关节地砍。”

He said, “Yes.”

他说：“是的。”

said, “What do you mean by wrong Karma?”

说：“你说错误的 Karma 是什么意思？”

He said, “You have been ordered to cut me limb by limb. Is it true? Joint by joint.”

他说：“你被命令一块一块地砍我。是真的吗？一个关节一个关节地砍。”

He said, “Yes.”

他说：“是的。”

He said, “You are cutting this three joints in one stroke. You start with first joint and second and third, let me teach you how to do it.”

他说：“你一刀砍下这三个关节。你从第一个关节、第二个和第三个开始，让我教你怎么做。”

The guy left his axe and ran to the Governor, he said, “What kind of man I am supposed to cut today?”

那家伙丢下他的斧头，跑到总督那里，他说：“我今天要砍的是什么样的人？”

He said, “Well, you are the only one who can do it.”

他说：“嗯，你是唯一能做这件事的人。”

And he came and he said, “Permit me, I’ll cut your neck and get away with it and I don’t care they cut me later, I can’t do it to you.”

他走过来，说：“允许我，我来砍你的脖子，然后逃掉，我不在乎他们之后砍我，我下不了手砍你。”

And Bhai Sahib took his other hand and said, “Put the axe in your hand” and he put his own thing and did one, two and three and told him, “Now it is easy, go ahead. You are doing your job and you are doing with your honesty because that is your Karma to do it and it's my Karma to get cut.”

Bhai Sahib 抓住他另一只手，说：“把斧头放在你手里。”然后他自己摆好姿势，做了一、二、三，对他说：“现在容易了，来吧。你在做你的事，你是凭着诚实去做的，因为那是你的 Karma 要去做，而我的 Karma 是被砍。”

it is easy, go ahead. You are doing your job and you are doing with your honesty because that is your Karma to do it and it's my Karma to get cut.”

容易了，来吧。你在做你的事，你是凭着诚实去做的，因为那是你的 Karma 要去做，而我的 Karma 是被砍。”

I don’t believe in my whatever humble belief or great belief I have got that one who is persecuting me is not persecuting me with the spirit of God and my prayer at that time is give me the spirit to stand that persecution in Thy grace. I think cause and effect is the game of the world. For me a Christian, a Christian who has Christ experience, conscious experience is equally a beautiful Saint as a Buddhist in his experience or a Sikh in his experience or a Muslim in his experience.

我不相信——无论我怀的是卑微的信仰还是伟大的信仰——那个迫害我的人不是在用神的精神迫害我，而我那时的祈祷是：请赐我精神，让我在你的优雅中承受那迫害。我认为因果是世界这场游戏。对我来说，一个基督徒，一个有过基督体验、有意识体验的基督徒，同样是一位美丽的圣徒，就像一位佛家修行者在他的体验中、一位锡克教徒在他的体验中、一位穆斯林在他的体验中一样。

But question is frequency of level at what height you are flying, if you are flying at a lower height things will look big to you on the Earth, if you are flying at a very high height, there will be nothing on the Earth you can look at and I attribute to one thing, which in Sikh religion exists, is the power of the word, power of the word and how you recite the word. I in my experience the entire Sikh Religion is based on that one center. The power of the word and that’s why… yes?

但问题是频率的层次，你飞在多高的高度。如果你飞在较低的高度，地上的东西对你来说会显得很大；如果你飞在很高的高度，地上就没有什么你能看得见的东西。我把这归因于一件事，它在锡克教里存在，就是圣音的力量，圣音的力量，以及你如何诵出圣音。以我的经验，整个锡克教就建立在那一个中心上。圣音的力量，这就是为什么……是吗？

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: Sure, sure.

Yogiji：当然，当然。

in my experience the entire Sikh Religion is based on that one center. The power of the word and that’s why… yes?

以我的经验，整个锡克教就建立在那一个中心上。圣音的力量，这就是为什么……是吗？

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: Sure, sure.

Yogiji：当然，当然。

Guest: How does that work out in a typical (?).

来宾：那在一个典型的（？）里是怎么运作的？

Yogiji: Yeah, that is what reciting of word. Now Japji, Japji means Japa, the repetition or the meditation of the Ji, Ji means the soul, the self. Now Guru Nanak recited this forty Pauris, forty steps, and a Sikh is supposed to get up early in the morning in the very primal hours say about two thirty or three O’ clock and clean himself and take a cold shower. And cold shower is stimulant of the bloodstream, and cold shower has no other meaning except that but if you have cold shower I say medically, you say sickness of your sinus, and sinuses are very heavy situation.

Yogiji：对，那就是诵出圣音。现在说 Japji，Japji 的意思是 Japa，重复，或者对 Ji 的冥想，Ji 的意思是灵魂、真我。Guru Nanak 诵出了这四十个 Pauri，四十步，而一个锡克教徒应该在清晨很早的原初时刻起床，大约两点半或三点，清洁自己，洗个冷水澡。冷水澡是血液的刺激剂，冷水澡除了这个没有别的意义，但如果你洗冷水澡——我从医学上说——你会说你鼻窦有病，而鼻窦是很沉重的状况。

If your sinuses are clogged up you are done and the Sushmana, the third nerve center, the central nerve center is related to sinuses in a human being. Because I’ll feel somebody who meditates without cleaning his bowel is doing a more injustice to himself than any justice because it can cause very bad side physical effect.

如果你的鼻窦堵住了，你就完了，而 Sushmana，第三个神经中心，中央神经中心，在人体中是与鼻窦相关的。因为我会感觉到，一个人冥想却不清理肠道，对他自己造成的伤害远大于任何益处，因为它会造成非常糟糕的身体副作用。

who meditates without cleaning his bowel is doing a more injustice to himself than any justice because it can cause very bad side physical effect.

一个人冥想却不清理肠道，对他自己造成的伤害远大于任何益处，因为它会造成非常糟糕的身体副作用。

So according to simplicity or the complexity of the religion is that you shall rise early in the morning and shall give one tenth in charity of your time and time is two and a half hours. Fool rises with the Sun rise; you in belief of God shall rise earlier than the Sun rise. And then you shall recite the Gurbani. A Sikh religion in the yogic terminology is called Sehaj Yoga, the easy path of union.

所以，按照宗教的简单或复杂程度，你要清晨早起，并把你的时间的十分之一用于慈善，而时间就是 2 个半小时。愚人随日出而起；你，因对神的信仰，要比日出起得更早。然后你要诵读 Gurbani。锡克教在瑜伽术语中被称为 Sehaj Yoga，即轻松的合一之路。

And the only Sikh, which I find in easiness is that those words are commuted, they are combinations, though they all mean to draw your attention towards God, suppose this Pauri, now if we see somebody bewitched with a devil, you know spirit and the doctors call the hypnosis and hypnotic state reveals us that he is possessed by a spirit. I have no feeling that I can’t relieve that person because I know the combination of these words shall make him individual self and the sutra goes, Pauri, it says again a step.

而我所发现的唯一轻松的锡克教之处，就是那些词语是被转换的，它们是组合，尽管它们都意味着把你的注意力引向神，比如这个 Pauri，现在如果我们看到某人被魔鬼迷住，你知道，是灵体，而医生称之为催眠，催眠状态向我们揭示他被一个灵体附身。我没有那种我无法解救那个人的感觉，因为我知道这些词语的组合会让他成为独立的自我，而经句接着说，Pauri，它说的又是一步。

“Jiththey Tu Samrakh, Othey Koi Na.”

「Jiththey Tu Samrakh, Othey Koi Na.」

the combination of these words shall make him individual self and the sutra goes, Pauri, it says again a step.

这些词语的组合会让他成为独立的自我，而经句接着说，Pauri，它说的又是一步。

“Jiththey Tu Samrakh, Othey Koi Na.”

「Jiththey Tu Samrakh, Othey Koi Na.」

Wherever Thou is there is none else. Now these are the literary meanings, I can give it side by side. But I don’t worry whether I know the literary meaning of it or not but in my yogic conception along being a Sikh I know that there are two Gufas, two caves in a human being. One is called the Bij Gufa the other is called Gian Gufa. Bij Gufa is the yoni the organ of the woman in which seed is laid and it grows and brings another Divine being, and Gian Gufa is what they call is the mouth. The cave of the mouth, in which the lingam is the tongue and in that lingam is separated. So it is a union and separation, Yin and Yang, law of polarity is the same thing again.

你在哪里，那里就没有别人。现在这些是文学上的含义，我可以把它们并排给出。但我不担心我是否知道它的文学含义，不过在我作为锡克教徒的瑜伽观念中，我知道人体内有两个 Gufas，两个洞穴。一个叫 Bij Gufa，另一个叫 Gian Gufa。Bij Gufa 是 yoni，女人的器官，种子被放入其中，它生长并带来另一个神圣的存在，而 Gian Gufa 就是他们所说的嘴。嘴的洞穴，其中 lingam 是舌头，而在那个 lingam 中被分离。所以它是合一与分离，阴与阳，极性法则又是同一回事。

So in this Gian Gufa, the cave of the hole of knowledge whatever you want to name it in your terminology, there is a upper palate, we call it Taalu, it has eighty-four meridian points, which are directly connected with your rest of the workshop or experience we call it for you and these words are just those combinations, it has got nothing to do but they all…

所以在这个 Gian Gufa，知识之洞的洞穴，你想用你的术语怎么叫都行，那里有一个上颚，我们叫它 Taalu，它有 84 个经脉点，这些点直接连着你其余的功课，或者说我们为你所说的体验，而这些词就是那些组合，它本身没什么，但它们全都……

with your rest of the workshop or experience we call it for you and these words are just those combinations, it has got nothing to do but they all…

连着你其余的功课，或者说我们为你所说的体验，而这些词就是那些组合，它本身没什么，但它们全都……

Guest: What do you mean by that the words make your tongue touch those points?

学员：你这么说是什么意思，那些词让你的舌头碰到那些点？

Yogiji: Yeah, you rotate it as you can experience right now, say the word Maa.

Yogiji：对，你转动它，就像你现在能体验到的那样，说这个词 Maa。

Guest: Maa.

学员：Maa。

Yogiji: Maa.

Yogiji：Maa。

Guest: Maa.

学员：Maa。

Yogiji: Say it again.

Yogiji：再说一遍。

Guest: Maa.

学员：Maa。

Yogiji: All right now don’t touch your lips and say the word Maa.

Yogiji：好，现在不要碰你的嘴唇，说这个词 Maa。

Guest: I can’t do it.

学员：我做不到。

Yogiji: Aaah, so it is that combination when you say word Maa now the most sacred word, which John didn’t write in the Bible according to my entire study is that Panch Shabad. Panch Shabad, five sacred words, which is called Shabad, the word, the word “In the beginning there was a word, word was with God and word was God.” But I have found it out through the yogic concept and then I found the same combination in Guru Granth Sahib, Siri Guru Granth and it comes to the simple Sat Nam and there Guru says,

Yogiji：啊哈，所以就是那个组合，当你说出 Maa 这个词，现在说最神圣的词，按我全部的研究，John 没有把它写进《圣经》，那就是 Panch Shabad。Panch Shabad，五个神圣的词，叫做 Shabd，那个词，那个词「太初有道，道与神同在，道就是神。」但我通过瑜伽的概念把它找了出来，然后我在《圣格兰特经》里找到了同样的组合，Siri Guru Granth，它归结为简单的 Sat Nam，在那里古茹说，

“Kirtam Nam Japey Meri Jeeba, Sat Nam Tero Paro Poorbla.”

「Kirtam Nam Japey Meri Jeeba, Sat Nam Tero Paro Poorbla。」

Guru Granth Sahib, Siri Guru Granth and it comes to the simple Sat Nam and there Guru says,

《圣格兰特经》，Siri Guru Granth，它归结为简单的 Sat Nam，在那里古茹说，

“Kirtam Nam Japey Meri Jeeba, Sat Nam Tero Paro Poorbla.”

「Kirtam Nam Japey Meri Jeeba, Sat Nam Tero Paro Poorbla。」

Kirtam Nam means as I perceive God through action, God is merciful, God is kind, God is Creator, God is this… whatever I feel about God, God is, but identity of God is truth. And that is what we call Sat Nam Tero Paro Poorbla. It is beyond, yonder than the yonder. That name of you is yonder than the yonder. Then I did not stop at that, I said Sat Nam is a atom, a word, atomic energy never came… now this is my western mind, you understand? I say it didn’t come to us, atom was there, but we have to divide this atom to find the atomic energy. Then I went into the yogic scripture, because Yoga is the basic science of unity of finite with Infinity and then I found it out those twenty words.

Kirtam Nam 的意思是，我通过行动感知神，神是慈悲的，神是仁慈的，神是造物主，神是这个……无论我对神有什么感受，神就是，但神的身份是真理。这就是我们所说的 Sat Nam Tero Paro Poorbla。它在彼岸，比彼岸更远。你那个名字比彼岸更远。然后我没有停在那里，我说 Sat Nam 是一个原子，一个词，原子能从来没有来过……现在这是我西方的心智，你明白吗？我说它没有来到我们这里，原子一直在那里，但我们必须分裂这个原子才能找到原子能。然后我进入瑜伽经典，因为瑜伽是有限与无限合一的基础科学，然后我找出了那二十个词。

Side B

B 面

Yogiji: Combination of five words. Sa Ta Na Ma. Aa is common. And then there are four great seals of Yoga. Maha Mudra, and Maha Mudra is Sa, which is Jupiter and ego, Ta the Saturn and the ego, Na the life force and the ego, Ma the resurrection or communication and the ego. So I found it exactly fits in and it's a part of those twenty sounds.

Yogiji：五个词的组合。Sa Ta Na Ma。Aa 是共同的。然后是瑜伽的四大封印。Maha Mudra，而 Maha Mudra 就是 Sa，它是木星和小我，Ta 是土星和小我，Na 是生命力和小我，Ma 是复活或沟通和小我。所以我发现它恰好契合，它是那二十个音的一部分。

Na the life force and the ego, Ma the resurrection or communication and the ego. So I found it exactly fits in and it's a part of those twenty sounds.

Na 是生命力和小我，Ma 是复活或沟通和小我。所以我发现它恰好契合，它是那二十个音的一部分。

Guest: What you are telling is (?) you are just separating of a connection between Yoga and Sikhism… that (?) Sikh people.

客人：你说的是（？）你只是在把瑜伽和锡克教之间的联系分开……那（？）锡克人。

Yogiji: No, no, no, it was there, I simply searched it out and then I went to them to confirm my view whatever I searched. I went to those Sikhs like Nirmalas, who hold the mystique experience of the Sikh religion and I found them they were practicing, so it was no discovery of mine, I was surprised…

Yogiji：不，不，不，它本来就在那里，我只是把它找出来，然后我去找他们确认我找出来的看法。我去找那些像 Nirmalas 这样的锡克人，他们掌握着锡克教的密修体验，我发现他们在修这个，所以这不是我的发现，我很惊讶……

Guest: You found those connections…

客人：你找到了那些联系……

of the Sikh religion and I found them they were practicing, so it was no discovery of mine, I was surprised…

锡克教的，我发现他们在修这个，所以这不是我的发现，我很惊讶……

Guest: You found those connections…

客人：你找到了那些联系……

Yogiji: Oh yeah you know it is what I say first I became emotionally involved in finding where my roots are and I have found in Christianity one thing. When a Christian feels like converting somebody he is very kind and very loving. But otherwise this feeling that I am holier than Thou or something, which I call is separism is very heavy and somebody was explaining to me it is western and I didn’t agree with that whether it is western or eastern but I have found it out that God the concept of my God or I have found my God is very individual or it's God of a section. The God of Israel, the God of the Jews, the God of the Christians. To Nanak the Guru, God is just the God, Ek Ong Kar.

Yogiji：哦是的，你知道，就像我说的，首先我在情感上投入到寻找我的根在哪里，我在基督教里发现了一件事。当一个基督徒想要转化某人的时候，他非常和善，非常有爱。但除此之外，那种我比你更神圣之类的感觉，我称之为分离主义，非常沉重，有人跟我解释说这是西方的，我不同意，不管它是西方的还是东方的，但我发现，神，我的神这个概念，或者我发现我的神，是非常个人化的，或者它是一个群体的神。以色列的神，犹太人的神，基督徒的神。对 Nanak 这位古茹来说，神就是神，Ek Ong Kar。

The one Creator, now the sound of Ek Ong Kar I sometime understand why with Ong he added Ek and to me revelation is very simple. Ek Ong… it immediately goes into the Trikuti and it is the easiest way to get that experience, which as meditative mind I may get in twenty years.

唯一的造物主，现在 Ek Ong Kar 这个音，我有时明白为什么他在 Ong 前面加了 Ek，对我来说这个启示很简单。Ek Ong……它立刻进入 Trikuti，这是获得那个体验最容易的方式，而作为冥想性心智，我可能要二十年才能得到。

Guest: (?) we meditate every morning.

客人：（？）我们每天早上冥想。

Yogiji: Yeah.

Yogiji：是的。

is the easiest way to get that experience, which as meditative mind I may get in twenty years.

是获得那个体验最容易的方式，而作为冥想性心智，我可能要二十年才能得到。

Guest: (?) we meditate every morning.

客人：（？）我们每天早上冥想。

Yogiji: Yeah.

Yogiji：是的。

Guest: We just reduce the same (?).

客人：我们只是把同样的（？）减少。

Yogiji: What is the meditation? Meditation is a simple… scientific explanation of this will be you are hit within one day… let us give you the exact number intellect thought wave. Premka, can you just figure it out? One billion twenty-four, you can write it for your knowledge because you are a orthodox Christian and it will help you. It will take you Christ as a Yogi much nearer than Christ as savior. He saves or not but he will united you to God. That’s what I am insisting. I wish in your age I should be (?) Write down twenty-four multiply into sixty.

Yogiji：冥想是什么？冥想是一种简单的……对它的科学解释是，你在一天之内受到的冲击……让我们给你一个确切的数字——智性念头的波动。Premka，你能算出来吗？十亿零二十四，你可以写下来供你了解，因为你是正统的基督徒，这对你有帮助。它会让你把基督作为瑜伽士来看待，比把基督作为救世主更亲近。他救不救你另说，但他会把你与神联结。这就是我一直强调的。我希望在你这个年纪，我应该是（？）写下二十四乘以六十。

Multiply it to sixty, makes the minute, makes the second and fifteen breaths per second multiply by fifteen and one thousand intellect thought your brain generates per that second. So multiply into thousand. That many wavelength, that many you are struck with the intellect thought, now you can understand a man sitting and getting that many electric shocks to him.

再乘以六十，得出分钟，得出秒，每秒十五次呼吸，再乘以十五，而你的大脑在那每一秒产生一千个智性念头。所以再乘以一千。那么多的波长，你被智性念头冲击那么多次，现在你能明白一个人坐在那里，受到那么多电击是什么感觉。

wavelength, that many you are struck with the intellect thought, now you can understand a man sitting and getting that many electric shocks to him.

波长，你被智性念头冲击那么多次，现在你能明白一个人坐在那里，受到那么多电击是什么感觉。

This is how we figure it out. And now this man has to exist as a composite micro consciousness as self. Now what the meditation does to you? When you start sitting and meditating in any Mudra, Mudra means these are the antennas of the energy and you make one Mudra. There are one eleven thousand Mudras known to us. So in any Mudra you sit, you fold your hands, you neutralize, you Gian Trikuti, you can hold this way, you can just sit with this way or you can sit that way, these are the combination of the frequency of your energy to neutralize and don’t forget this Jews shawl, while meditating.

我们就是这样算出来的。而现在这个人必须作为一个复合的微观意识、作为自我而存在。那么冥想对你做了什么？当你开始坐着，以任何手印（Mudra）冥想——手印意味着这些是能量的天线——你结一个手印。我们所知的手印有一万一千种。所以你以任何手印坐着，你合掌，你中和，你结智慧手印（Gian Mudra），你可以这样握着，你可以就这样坐着，或者你可以那样坐着，这些都是你能量频率的组合，用来中和，还有别忘了这条犹太人的披肩，在冥想的时候。

Don’t create a mistake, you must cover your shoulders, never do this mistake of meditating, three things in meditation one should never do. One should see that within the vicinity of four hours he has not to go to clear the bowels. You know they are not in the upper area, they are gone below the navel point. It should be a personal knowledge.

不要犯错，你必须盖住肩膀，绝不要在冥想时犯这个错，冥想中有三件事绝不该做。一个人应该知道，在四个小时之内他不必去排大便。你知道它们不在上部区域，它们已经落到丹田以下了。这应该是个人自己知道的事。

he has not to go to clear the bowels. You know they are not in the upper area, they are gone below the navel point. It should be a personal knowledge.

他不必去排大便。你知道它们不在上部区域，它们已经落到丹田以下了。这应该是个人自己知道的事。

Second you must understand that your shoulders are covered with a warm cloth because you will start feeling coldness here, moment you go in the beginning of the meditative stage and you can be paralyzed because these seven vertebras in the neck and the nervous system, this passing through the eighth vertebras, which is the joint of the diaphragm at the heart to which it beats, if that gets cold you are done. So that’s the second area of combination. Third, if you have to meditate and you feel you have fixed time or you are that and you feel that body and is not then at the navel point take a piece of cloth and knot it. That’s called cummerbund.

第二，你必须明白，你的肩膀要盖上一块暖布，因为你一开始进入冥想阶段，这里就会开始发冷，你可能会瘫痪，因为脖子上的这七节脊椎和整个神经系统，要穿过第八节脊椎，也就是横膈膜与心脏相接、心跳所在的那个关节，如果那里受了凉，你就完了。所以这是第二个要护住的部位。第三，如果你要冥想，而你觉得自己有固定的时间，或者你就是那样，觉得身体不对劲，那就在丹田处拿一块布，打个结。那叫腰封。

And what happens to you in meditation when you sit down and close your eyes and you start reciting the name of God they call it mono frequency of the sound current.

你在冥想中坐下、闭上眼、开始念诵神的名字时，会发生什么——他们把这叫做音流（sound current）的单一频率。

to you in meditation when you sit down and close your eyes and you start reciting the name of God they call it mono frequency of the sound current.

你在冥想中坐下、闭上眼、开始念诵神的名字时，会发生什么——他们把这叫做音流（sound current）的单一频率。

And mantra is nothing but a mono-frequency of the sound current. When all these currents will start hitting you, all diversional thought will visit you, all neurotic nuisance situation will visit you at that time, which you call impure thought or unwanted thought or disturbing thoughts to fight those thoughts, you have to continue… there is a… in Santa Fe there is a reverend father Jacob and he has arthritis. And he met me and I said, “You are in terrible pain.” I mean (?) he said, “That’s why I came, because you are a Yogi.”

而曼陀罗（Mantra）不过是音流的单一频率。当所有这些电流开始冲击你，所有让你分心的念头都会来找你，所有神经质的烦扰状况都会在那个时候来找你，也就是你所谓的杂念、不想要的念头或扰人的念头，要对抗这些念头，你就必须继续……在圣塔菲（Santa Fe）有一位雅各布神父（Reverend Father Jacob），他得了关节炎。他来见我，我说：「你疼得很厉害。」我是说（？）他说：「我就是为这个来的，因为你是瑜伽士（Yogi）。」

I said, “Do you meditate on Jesus Christ?”

我说：「你冥想耶稣基督吗？」

He said, “Yes, I meditate on Jesus Christ.”

他说：「是的，我冥想耶稣基督。」

I said, “Then you should not have arthritis, I don’t believe. Jesus is the healer.”

我说：「那你不该得关节炎，我不信。耶稣是疗愈者。」

He said, “Well, either you have to say that I am lying to you or you have to accept me on my word, I meditate on Jesus Christ.”

他说：「好吧，你要么说我是在骗你，要么就得相信我的话，我确实冥想耶稣基督。」

And I said, “Do you take cold shower bath?”

我说：「你洗冷水澡吗？」

He said, “Doctor told me not to.”

他说：「医生叫我别洗。」

I said, “Do you clean your bowels?”

我说：「你清理肠道吗？」

He said, “I never knew about that.”

他说：「这个我从来不知道。」

I said, “And you meditate?”

我说：「那你还冥想？」

He said, “Yes, that’s…”

他说：「是的，那是……」

told me not to.”

叫我别洗。」

I said, “Do you clean your bowels?”

我说：「你清理肠道吗？」

He said, “I never knew about that.”

他说：「这个我从来不知道。」

I said, “And you meditate?”

我说：「那你还冥想？」

He said, “Yes, that’s…”

他说：「是的，那是……」

I said, “Here is the arthritis, you know where is the arthritis, it's right there.”

我说：「关节炎就在这里，你知道关节炎在哪儿，就在那儿。」

He said, “What should I do?”

他说：「我该怎么办？」

I said, “Tomorrow morning… first of all don’t eat in late nights so that you may not have bowels at all.”

我说：「明天早上……首先，别在深夜吃东西，这样你根本就不会有便意。」

So he (?) by that and then I told him to have a heavy thick blanket shawl and take cold water shower. So luckily to God’s miracle, he didn’t know how cold so he went through the basic ice cold water and massaged his body and you know that brought circulation to his body like anything and naturally that took away the arthritis right on the spot. It is nothing else, Jesus didn’t do that blunder and he has that warm shawl, which totally brings balance in his nervous system and his mind became clearer and clearer because I told him Thou Jesus, “Thou are my Lord Jesus Christ.” I gave him the mantra; I made up right there on the spot.

所以他就这样，然后我让他拿一条又厚又重的毯子披肩，去冲冷水澡。幸好，靠着神的奇迹，他并不知道有多冷，所以他冲了那冰得刺骨的水，按摩了身体，你知道那让他的血液循环一下子就起来了，自然也就当场把关节炎带走了。没别的，耶稣没犯那个错，他有那条暖和的披肩，那完全平衡了他的神经系统，他的心智变得越来越清晰，因为我告诉他，耶稣啊，「Thou are my Lord Jesus Christ。」我给了他那个曼陀罗；我当场就编了出来。

became clearer and clearer because I told him Thou Jesus, “Thou are my Lord Jesus Christ.” I gave him the mantra; I made up right there on the spot.

变得越来越清晰，因为我告诉他，耶稣啊，「Thou are my Lord Jesus Christ。」我给了他那个曼陀罗；我当场就编了出来。

Because I can understand the twist in my tongue, ‘Thou are my Lord Jesus Christ’ and he liked it and he said, “All right, I’ll do it.” He is hale and healthy and there is no problem and he doesn’t do anything, it was not mystical for me, but I could understand with the combination of Laya Yoga, what sound can create the balance of equilibrium in the meditative form.

因为我能听懂我舌头里的那个转折，「Thou are my Lord Jesus Christ」，他喜欢，他说：「好，我做。」他健健康康，什么问题都没有，他什么都不用做，这对我来说并不神秘，但我能明白，结合拉亚瑜伽（Laya Yoga），声音能在冥想的形式里创造出什么样的平衡与均衡。

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: Yes, yes, in English we chant God and me, me and God are one. Now it is a Ashtang mantra. Exact in English words and you know I teach lot of people who are not of my faith and we don’t convert people (?) Christian wants to learn meditation and I am not going to tell him that I don’t teach you, you have to be a Sikh first. But a stage comes when the stage of meditation reaches the point where multiple thought you don’t like at all. You want to be at that mono equi-balance state of mind. So what you want to do with that person?

Yogiji：是的，是的，用英语我们唱诵神和我，我和神是一体。现在它是一个八支曼陀罗（Ashtang mantra）。用英语词句精确对应，你知道我教很多不是我信仰的人，我们不让人改宗（？）基督徒想学冥想，我不会告诉他我不教你，你得先成为锡克教徒。但会到一个阶段，冥想的阶段到了那个点，多重念头你一点都不喜欢。你想处在那种单一均衡的心智状态。那你要拿这个人怎么办？

point where multiple thought you don’t like at all. You want to be at that mono equi-balance state of mind. So what you want to do with that person? So if somebody will say ask me, “Well I am hung up on Jesus Christ and I don’t want to go further,” then I say, “Thou are my Lord Jesus Christ!

到了那个点，多重念头你一点都不喜欢。你想处在那种单一均衡的心智状态。那你要拿这个人怎么办？所以如果有人问我：「唉，我卡在耶稣基督上，我不想再往前走了」，那我就说：「Thou are my Lord Jesus Christ！

Thou are my Lord Jesus Christ.” It is (?) man in prayer but eight, Ashtang, God and me, me and God are one. It’s a Ashtang mantra. It is just chanting the Gayatri,

Thou are my Lord Jesus Christ。」这是（？）人在祈祷，但八支，Ashtang，神和我，我和神是一体。它是一个八支曼陀罗。它就是在唱诵《伽耶特黎》（Gayatri），

“Om Bhoorbhuvasvaha Tat Savitur Varenyam Bhargo Devasya Dheemahi Dheeyo Yo Nah Prachodayat.”

「Om Bhoorbhuvasvaha Tat Savitur Varenyam Bhargo Devasya Dheemahi Dheeyo Yo Nah Prachodayat。」

It's simple. I am not going to do that in Sanskrit, I am going to say, I am going to exactly get the same result by saying God and me, me and God are one. Because I understand me into me, Sa into Sou is creating that uniform circulation on my meridians and I am stimulating my eleventh and twenty-second meridian, which are the most important, which are the six number, which has to be stimulated by the tongue so it's a complicated science but it's the simplest and easiest and shortcut way to do… because in Bhagti, in devotion, in service you have to do dedicate your whole life. But we believe that you give God the God and give dog the dog.

很简单。我不会用梵文来做，我会说，我要用「神和我、我和神是一体」这句话得到完全一样的结果。因为我懂得把「我」融入「我」，「Sa」融入「Sou」，在我的经脉上造出那种均匀的循环，我在刺激我的第十一和第二条经脉，那是最重要的，是第六条，必须由舌头来刺激，所以它是一门复杂的科学，但它是最简单、最容易、最快捷的做法……因为在奉爱（Bhagti）里，在虔诚里，在服务里，你得奉献你的一生。但我们相信，把神的归给神，把狗的归给狗。

do… because in Bhagti, in devotion, in service you have to do dedicate your whole life. But we believe that you give God the God and give dog the dog.

做法……因为在奉爱（Bhagti）里，在虔诚里，在服务里，你得奉献你的一生。但我们相信，把神的归给神，把狗的归给狗。

You get out and work and earn and share and you be purified with God I mean to say,

你出去工作、赚钱、分享，你就在神里面得到净化，我的意思是说，

“Grihastashram Maha Ashram, Devi-Dev Poojitey.”

「Grihastashram Maha Ashram, Devi-Dev Poojitey.」

And that’s the Grihastashram. For that Guru Nanak gave what they call is Mool mantra, root mantra of all the mantras. And the sound of that goes like this,

这就是居士阶段（Grihastashram）。为此 Guru Nanak 给出了他们所说的 Mool mantra，一切曼陀罗的根本曼陀罗。它的音是这样的，

“Ek Ong Kar Sat Nam Karta Purkh Nirbhao…”

「Ek Ong Kar Sat Nam Karta Purkh Nirbhao……」

These are all praises of the God. It has got nothing individual about it.

这些都是对神的赞美。它里面没有一点个人的东西。

“Nirbhao Nirvair Akal Moorat Ajooni Saibhung Gurprasad, Jap, Aad Sach Jugaad Sach Hai Bhee Sach Nanak Hosee Bhee Sach.”

「Nirbhao Nirvair Akal Moorat Ajooni Saibhung Gurprasad, Jap, Aad Sach Jugaad Sach Hai Bhee Sach Nanak Hosee Bhee Sach.」

That’s it. Nothing further, further is whole Japji.

就这些。再没有别的了，再往下就是整部 Japji。

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: It is just like a lollypop, but it has a sugar in it. It has got… pacifier has nothing but you don’t want a pacifier, which doesn’t have a little honey in it. Question is that sound to rotate the tongue in that combination in the Gian Gufa, that is the…

Yogiji：它就像一根棒棒糖，但里面有糖。它有……安抚奶嘴什么都没有，可你不会想要一个里面没有一点蜂蜜的安抚奶嘴。问题是，那个音要在 Gian Gufa 里以那种组合转动舌头，那就是……

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

which doesn’t have a little honey in it. Question is that sound to rotate the tongue in that combination in the Gian Gufa, that is the…

里面没有一点蜂蜜。问题是，那个音要在 Gian Gufa 里以那种组合转动舌头，那就是……

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: Yeah, I am going to say that. Moment I stop I am revealed of by these people of paying them this money, the bills I am supposed to. Because I go and earn money and I pay their bills, moment they start paying their bills I’ll start doing my job I mean to say at this time I am bound down by half a million dollars to them.

Yogiji：对，我会那么说。我一停下来，我就被这些人免了付他们这笔钱的责任，那些我该付的账单。因为我去赚钱，我付他们的账单，他们一开始付自己的账单，我就开始干我的活，我的意思是说，这个时候我被五十万美元绑在他们身上。

Guest: Yeah, you would (?) all those books in English and with these (?).

来宾：对，你会（？）所有那些英文书，还有这些（？）。

Yogiji: Yeah, that’s what, that’s what I want to give to the west… now my combination is like this. Why I am working in this country? I can tell you one thing very specific. I have a revelation; it's mine, nothing new to believe that communism is going to take over the world and all communism is a neurotic capitalism of the state. Now I am a economist, I am not a religious man, I don’t claim to be. I have been made religious man because I did something very religious and it is my supreme body, let them judge me, I am not.

Yogi Bhajan：对，这就是我想带给西方的东西……现在我的组合是这样的。我为什么在这个国家工作？我可以非常具体地告诉你一件事。我有一个启示；它是我的，相信共产主义会接管世界并不是什么新鲜事，而所有共产主义都是国家的一种神经质的资本主义。现在我是个经济学家，我不是宗教人士，我不自称是。我被弄成了宗教人士，因为我做了一件非常宗教的事，而那是我的至高身体，让他们评判我吧，我不评判。

I don’t claim to be. I have been made religious man because I did something very religious and it is my supreme body, let them judge me, I am not.

我不自称是。我被弄成了宗教人士，因为我做了一件非常宗教的事，而那是我的至高身体，让他们评判我吧，我不评判。

I am not a professional clergy or a preacher or a teacher I don’t claim neither I want to be claimed and nor I have anything to do I am just a human being and I just want to work. I tolerate their titles on me and tying me into the whole nonsense because I can’t say no to them and I told them this thing that… to me to tie down to a religion is just putting in a jail in a room. To me it doesn’t matter.

我不是职业神职人员，也不是传教士或老师，我不自称是，也不想被自称，而且我与此毫无关系，我只是一个人，我只想工作。我容忍他们加在我身上的头衔，把我绑进那一整套胡扯里，因为我无法对他们说不，我告诉过他们这件事……对我来说，被绑到一种宗教上，就像被关进一个房间的监狱里。对我来说这无所谓。

In India, I used to have Christian, I used to have every denomination of every religion come and learn and work and I enjoy that, I don’t enjoy this limited part of mine, in which I have been focused and I like to free myself but what I feel is for the fee of the spirit, Sikh religion may not have anything greater than any religion or lesser than a religion but (?) experiment has proved that those who were lying down as low and being walked over disrespectfully as human beings it rose them to standard people who stood against the tyranny of the time.

在印度，我曾经有基督徒，我曾经有每一种宗教的每一个教派来学习、来工作，我很享受那个，我不享受我这个被聚焦的有限部分，我想解放自己，但我感觉到的是，为了灵性的费用，锡克教可能不比任何宗教更伟大，也不比一种宗教更渺小，但（？）实验已经证明，那些躺得极低、作为人被不尊重地踩过的人，它把他们提升为站立起来反对时代暴政的标准人。

lying down as low and being walked over disrespectfully as human beings it rose them to standard people who stood against the tyranny of the time.

躺得极低、作为人被不尊重地踩过，它把他们提升为站立起来反对时代暴政的标准人。

And I feel if tomorrow this free land has to stand the tyranny of time I don’t mind saying Hallelujah or singing “Saints are marching,” if you come to our congregation you will be freaking out, you will think it is more Christian than anywhere else. We do… not that I want to convert people; I have no dearth of students or followers or anything like that.

我觉得，如果明天这片自由之地必须经受时间的暴政，我不介意说哈利路亚或唱「圣徒在行进」，如果你来我们的集会，你会被吓到，你会觉得它比任何地方都更像基督教。我们做……不是我想让人皈依；我不缺学生、追随者或诸如此类的东西。

Guest: (?) for a Christian who would be makes the (?).

来宾：（？）对于一个基督徒来说，谁会制造（？）。

Yogiji: Those sounds I make it to Jesus Christ.

Yogi Bhajan：我发出的那些声音是给耶稣基督的。

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: Those twenty sounds are Saa… he knows the first seven musical sound Saa Ree Gaa Maa Paa Dhaa Nee, Sa Ta Na Ma Ra Ma Da Sa, Sa Sey So Hung. There are the twenty sounds, period. No more no less, no expansion, nothing.

Yogi Bhajan：那二十个声音是 Saa……他知道前七个音乐声音 Saa Ree Gaa Maa Paa Dhaa Nee，Sa Ta Na Ma Ra Ma Da Sa，Sa Sey So Hung。有那二十个声音，就这样。不多不少，不扩展，什么都没有。

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Maa Paa Dhaa Nee, Sa Ta Na Ma Ra Ma Da Sa, Sa Sey So Hung. There are the twenty sounds, period. No more no less, no expansion, nothing.

Maa Paa Dhaa Nee，Sa Ta Na Ma Ra Ma Da Sa，Sa Sey So Hung。就是这二十个音，到此为止。不多不少，不扩展，什么都没有。

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: Oh yeah, but you know the tradition in India is terrible tradition. My teacher taught me, his teacher taught him, his teacher taught him, and in Tantric Yoga where the sound is the fiber of accumulation of you know I feel I am very happy that I could teach these things freely and I can even teach through universities but idea is not it doesn’t matter to you that you may go on having a meditation all your life… rather I feel very pity for those people who meditate, pretend to be spiritual, I appreciate their effort. But I feel hurt when they don’t have that experience to back it.

Yogiji：哦是的，但你知道印度的传统是可怕的传统。我的老师教我，他的老师教他，他的老师教他，而在谭崔瑜伽里，声音是积累的纤维，你知道，我感到非常高兴，我能自由地教这些东西，我甚至能通过大学来教，但重点不是这个——你一辈子一直做一种冥想也没关系……反而我为那些冥想、假装有灵性的人感到非常惋惜，我欣赏他们的努力。但当他们没有那种体验来支撑时，我感到受伤。

I think technology has only one meaning that I have a car, it's a comfortable car and my back now doesn’t hurt. Okay? It’s a costly car. It doesn’t matter. I can drive in any car but think of a man who lives all the time in a car, who only takes a pillow by the side of the car and sleeps for an hour and he has to lecture in another university, I don’t know which place.

我认为技术只有一个意义，就是我有一辆车，它是一辆舒适的车，我的背现在不疼了。好吗？它是一辆昂贵的车。没关系。我可以开任何车，但想想一个人，他整天住在车里，只在车边拿个枕头睡一个小时，然后他得去另一所大学讲课，我不知道是哪个地方。

in a car, who only takes a pillow by the side of the car and sleeps for an hour and he has to lecture in another university, I don’t know which place.

在车里，只在车边拿个枕头睡一个小时，然后他得去另一所大学讲课，我不知道是哪个地方。

I feel whatever Sikh religion has to give doesn’t belong to now. I honestly believe that after being a Sikh or whatever you want to call me, I think it is not day’s affair, it is neuroticness and nervousness and fearfulness and it's going to be so heavy, I think if all the Christian, Protestant, Buddhists, everything can pick up those sounds, basic sounds and combine them and start experimenting now with their people and see if they can elevate to somebody to that great strength of the spirit. I think we will be doing a very qualifying job, it is… to me it is very limiting that I have just like you know somebody is bewitched by mental aggravation and agony one who is suffering.

我觉得锡克教所能给予的东西不属于现在。我诚实地相信，在成为锡克教徒之后，或者随便你想怎么称呼我，我认为这不是一天的事，它是神经质、紧张和恐惧，它会变得非常沉重，我想如果所有基督徒、新教徒、佛教徒，所有一切都能拿起那些声音，基本的声音，把它们结合起来，现在就开始和他们的人实验，看看他们能否把某人提升到那种伟大的灵性力量。我想我们会做一件非常有资格的工作，它是……对我来说非常局限，就像你知道有人被心智的激化和痛苦迷住，一个正在受苦的人。

For me to put that man into a trance with my flow and ask him to recreate those words,

对我来说，用我的流动把那个人带入恍惚，并让他重现那些话，

by mental aggravation and agony one who is suffering.

被心智的激化和痛苦，一个正在受苦的人。

For me to put that man into a trance with my flow and ask him to recreate those words,

对我来说，用我的流动把那个人带入恍惚，并让他重现那些话，

“Jiththey Tu Samrakh, Othey Koi Na, Othey Teri Rakh, Agni Odhar Maaye, Sunkey Jamkey Doodh, Naaye Terey Chhad Jaaye, Bhav Jal (?) Gaa, Guru Sabad Dee Paar Paaye, Jinn Ko Lagi Pyaas, Amrit Ek Hei Kal Mein Oh Gunn, Gunn Gobind Gaaye Sabse Nu Kartaal, Samale (?) Birtha Koi Na Jaaney, Jee Aavey Tho Raah.”

“Jiththey Tu Samrakh, Othey Koi Na, Othey Teri Rakh, Agni Odhar Maaye, Sunkey Jamkey Doodh, Naaye Terey Chhad Jaaye, Bhav Jal (?) Gaa, Guru Sabad Dee Paar Paaye, Jinn Ko Lagi Pyaas, Amrit Ek Hei Kal Mein Oh Gunn, Gunn Gobind Gaaye Sabse Nu Kartaal, Samale (?) Birtha Koi Na Jaaney, Jee Aavey Tho Raah。”

That’s it, I am going to say this into so many repetitions that this man will have a jerk and… and that’s it, I think I have done my job and done, let him go to the Synagogue tomorrow or to the Church or to a bar. All I want is not to be neurotically mentally neurotic, I don’t care, what do you want to call himself.

就是这样，我要把这话重复到这个人猛地一震……就这样，我想我的活儿干完了，让他明天去犹太会堂、去教堂，或者去酒吧都行。我只求别神经兮兮地精神神经质，我不在乎，他想管自己叫什么随他。

Guest: (-----)

来宾：（-----）

Yogiji: One tenth of twenty-four hours. One tenth. You give in time in charity to God.

Yogiji：24 小时的十分之一。十分之一。你把时间当作布施献给神。

Guest: (?) what logistically happens in us?

来宾：（？）我们内在到底发生了什么？

Yogiji: Well, we get up in the morning.

Yogiji：嗯，我们早上起床。

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: No, no, no, we have got so many, I mean to say…

Yogiji：不，不，不，我们有很多，我是说……

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

happens in us?

发生在我们身上？

Yogiji: Well, we get up in the morning.

Yogiji：嗯，我们早上起床。

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: No, no, no, we have got so many, I mean to say…

Yogiji：不，不，不，我们有很多，我是说……

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: We do it in group, we call it Sangat, but who wants to do individually has the choice whatever he wants. I mean to say there are both things available for individual identity for group consciousness, in group consciousness…

Yogiji：我们集体做，我们叫它 Sangat，但谁想单独做，随他选。我是说，个体身份和集体意识两者都有，在集体意识里……

Guest: (?) what happens in the morning (?).

来宾：（？）早上会发生什么（？）。

Yogiji: Well, he takes cold shower, then he takes his blanket and he takes his sheep’s skin or something to sit on which is warm, which is… you know you will find always sitting me on a chair but my spine is always covered by a sheep’s skin or something. I’ll never sit ordinarily until I want to mess up myself without keeping my spine. This is what I lay it on (?) sleep on it. That is because the most sensitive protective part, which you have to protect in your body is your spine. Because it is the carrier of your parasympathetic, sympathetic nervous system and all your strength is your nerves.

Yogiji：嗯，他冲冷水澡，然后拿上毯子，拿上羊皮或别的什么坐着，暖和，那个……你知道你总看见我坐在椅子上，但我的脊柱总是用羊皮或什么盖着。我平常绝不坐着，除非我想把自己搞乱、不护着脊柱。这就是我把它垫在（？）上面睡的原因。因为身体里最敏感、最需要保护的部分就是你的脊柱。因为它是副交感、交感神经系统的载体，你全部的力量都在神经里。

So he comes and brings his sheep’s skin and brings his blanket, he sits down; he meditates for a few minutes we say prayer, and our prayer is,

所以他来了，带上羊皮，带上毯子，坐下；他冥想几分钟，我们念祈祷，我们的祈祷是，

“Ong Namo Guru Dev Namo.”

“Ong Namo Guru Dev Namo。”

his sheep’s skin and brings his blanket, he sits down; he meditates for a few minutes we say prayer, and our prayer is,

羊皮，带上毯子，坐下；他冥想几分钟，我们念祈祷，我们的祈祷是，

“Ong Namo Guru Dev Namo.”

“Ong Namo Guru Dev Namo。”

“O Infinite transparent God, we bow to Thee, our salutations.” And then we start doing exercises physical to open our limbs and system so our flow of the meridians may become okay and then we start breathing combinations so that vitality in the blood of oxygen may become enough, enough to maintain us and thereafter we start meditating on mantras and after we get into a certain stage where the leader feels that now they are almost in their space, then we start chanting this combination of Gurbani and then we take, open the Guru Granth, we take the Hukum of the day. The message what comes through and then we have Prashad in blanched almonds, and herbal tea. What is the tea we use….

“啊，无限而透明的神，我们向你顶礼，我们向你致敬。”然后我们开始做身体的练习，打开我们的肢体和系统，让经脉的流动变得顺畅，接着我们开始做呼吸的组合，让血液里的氧气带来的活力变得足够，足以维持我们，之后我们开始冥想曼陀罗，等我们进入某个阶段，带领的人觉得大家差不多都进入自己的空间了，我们就开始唱诵这个Gurbani的组合，然后我们打开《圣格兰特经》，取当天的Hukam。传过来的讯息，然后我们领受Prashad，是去皮杏仁和草本茶。我们用的是什么茶……

Student: (----)

学生：（----）

of the day. The message what comes through and then we have Prashad in blanched almonds, and herbal tea. What is the tea we use….

当天的。传过来的讯息，然后我们领受Prashad，是去皮杏仁和草本茶。我们用的是什么茶……

Student: (----)

学生：（----）

Yogiji: Mint tea! And everybody picks up his car and dresses himself and goes to his work. You are off for the day. Because what we feel is eight hours to work, eight hours to your social self and eight hours to your sleep rest and your meditation and your personal improvement. Twenty-four hours are divided that way. There is one thing very beautiful in Sikh religion. It believes in one God. But it doesn’t call anybody heathen. That’s the only one added thing I have found and I have also found one thing very beautiful in Sikh religion, its doors are very open. You can walk in, in the Temple.

Yogiji：薄荷茶！然后每个人拿起自己的车，穿戴好，去上班。这一天你就自由了。因为我们觉得，8小时工作，8小时给你的社会性自我，8小时给你的睡眠休息、你的冥想和你个人的提升。24小时就是这样划分的。锡克教里有一件事非常美。它相信一位神。但它不叫任何人异教徒。这是我发现的唯一多加的一点，我也在锡克教里发现一件非常美的事，它的门非常开放。你可以走进去，走进庙里。

one added thing I have found and I have also found one thing very beautiful in Sikh religion, its doors are very open. You can walk in, in the Temple.

我发现唯一多加的一点，我也在锡克教里发现一件非常美的事，它的门非常开放。你可以走进去，走进庙里。

In Golden Temple Muslim comes, he does his Muslim prayers, we don’t tell him to get out of here. As a principle. And it is a common kitchen that’s one of the most beautiful thing, whenever you come to a congregation you can be freely fed and you will be loved and tolerated and the only thing is we are very monotheist in the sense there is one God, but we didn’t say God our Lord, our death, sectarianism is not there. One God is one God as I was told yesterday I have found my God and I said why not you have found also mine, what is the difference in your God, one who finds one’s God, finds everybody’s God. That concept is very heavily there and it maybe for a person…

在金庙里，穆斯林进来，做他的穆斯林祈祷，我们不会叫他滚出去。这是原则。还有一个公共厨房，那是最美的事情之一，每当你来到一个 congregation，你都可以免费吃饱，你会被爱、被包容，唯一的一点是我们非常一神论，意思是只有一位神，但我们没说神是我们的主、我们的死，宗派主义不在那里。一位神就是一位神，就像昨天有人告诉我，我找到了我的神，我说，为什么你不是也找到了我的，你的神和我的有什么不同，找到自己的神的人，就找到了每个人的神。这个概念在那里非常重，也许对一个人来说……

you understand what I am trying to say. For a person to live on this Earth to us is a very temporary trip. It's not that all is.

你明白我想说什么。对一个人来说，活在这个地球上，对我们来说是一趟非常短暂的旅程。并不是说一切都是。

Guest: (----)

客人：（----）

understand what I am trying to say. For a person to live on this Earth to us is a very temporary trip. It's not that all is.

明白我想说什么。对一个人来说，活在这个地球上，对我们而言，是一趟非常短暂的旅程。并不是说一切就……

Guest: (----)

来宾：（----）

Yogiji: Yeah, but then there is lot to experience, this is a period to me, it's a period of experience. And if I am avoided of the experience then rest is forget… my apologies, I don’t believe that that anything else is worth anything. Some people are very afraid of mystic experience and whatever you want to call it, but had there not been a experience we would have totally been done because I have seen in certain things, certain vision comes to me and I get up next morning and I say ‘folks, do what you choose to do but this is what I can interpret what I felt and what I saw’ and it has saved us lot, it has saved us tremendous amount of chaos… I…

Yogiji：是的，但接下来还有很多要去体验，对我来说这是一段时期，是一段体验的时期。如果我避开了这些体验，那剩下的就都忘了……抱歉，我不相信别的任何东西有什么价值。有些人非常害怕神秘体验，不管你怎么称呼它，但如果没有体验，我们早就完了，因为我在某些事情上看到过，某些景象会来到我这里，第二天早上我起来就说「各位，你们想怎么做就怎么做，但这是我能解释的、我所感受到的、我所看到的」，它救了我们很多，它救了我们免于巨大的混乱……我……

yeah, I remember once my car was to come to Los Angeles and five girls were driving it back and I said, “May the God and Guru…” and I said, “Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait minute, wait a minute, now who is cheating among you?”

是的，我记得有一次我的车要开到洛杉矶，五个女孩开着它回来，我说：「愿神和古茹……」然后我说：「等一下，等一下，等一下，等一下，现在你们当中谁在作弊？」

it back and I said, “May the God and Guru…” and I said, “Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait minute, wait a minute, now who is cheating among you?”

它回来，我说：「愿神和古茹……」然后我说：「等一下，等一下，等一下，等一下，现在你们当中谁在作弊？」

They said, “What do you mean…” they were totally shocked that I’ll even use the word cheating. I said, “Somebody is cheating among you I told you to go by the same track, you came back. But somebody wants to divert the route, who is this?”

她们说：「你什么意思……」她们完全震惊了，我竟然会用「作弊」这个词。我说：「你们当中有人在作弊。我告诉你们走同一条路线，你们回来了。但有人想改道，是谁？」

And there was a girl, she said, “Sir, it was my thought but I’ll not do it.”

有一个女孩，她说：「先生，那是我的念头，但我不会去做。」

I said, “Don’t you do it! Take the car exactly by the same route you have come, otherwise I think we are not ready for going by any other route.”

我说：「你别去做！把车沿着你们来的同一条路线开回去，否则我认为我们还没准备好走任何别的路线。」

And they said, “Okay.”

她们说：「好。」

In the middle of the way she said to them, “Now, Yogiji is too much away, his aura doesn’t reflect more than so many thousand yards so we are far away from that and I think we should have a different route.”

半路上，她对她们说：「现在，Yogiji 离得太远了，他的能量圈反射不了超过几千码，所以我们离得太远了，我觉得我们应该走一条不同的路线。」

too much away, his aura doesn’t reflect more than so many thousand yards so we are far away from that and I think we should have a different route.”

离得太远了，他的能量圈反射不了超过几千码，所以我们离得太远了，我觉得我们应该走一条不同的路线。」

So lucky enough, they took a route, car took the turn and toppled down back and it was total but every life was safe. So everybody learnt by experience and sitting right there, I said like a thud here. I just felt that. You call it experience, it's a very mystical experience and I called my security men and I said, “Hey, track down the car, which has left.”

幸运的是，她们走了一条路线，车一转弯就翻了下去，车全毁了，但每个人都平安。所以每个人都从体验中学到了，就坐在那里，我像被重重一击。我就是感觉到了。你把它叫做体验，它是一种非常神秘的体验，我叫来我的安保人员，我说：「嘿，把那辆已经离开的车追查出来。」

And in couple hours we got the message, this is what has happened. To me it is intuition, to me it is a simple intuition and I feel you start the sequence, you end up in consequences and then in the end of the consequences you found God, you are the one who started the sequence, but if you are intuitive if your mind is pure and intuitive you are… then you know the sequence will lead to the consequences… and in Divine will, word is ‘Divine Will’ you can if you are blessed as the man of faith, you can pray and your prayer can just put you on the correct path.

几个小时后我们得到了消息，事情就是这样发生的。对我来说这是直觉，对我来说这是一种简单的直觉，我觉得你启动了序列，你最终落入后果之中，然后在后果的尽头你找到了神，你就是那个启动序列的人，但如果你是直觉的，如果你的心智是纯净而直觉的，你就是……那么你知道这个序列会导向那些后果……而在神的意志中，这个词是「神的意志」，如果你有幸成为有信仰的人，你可以祈祷，你的祈祷就能把你放在正确的道路上。

Divine will, word is ‘Divine Will’ you can if you are blessed as the man of faith, you can pray and your prayer can just put you on the correct path.

神的意志，这个词是「神的意志」，如果你有幸成为有信仰的人，你可以祈祷，你的祈祷就能把你放在正确的道路上。

I think when God is merciful it guides me to the correctness, and when God is merciful it shows me through a harder time how ignorant I am. Thank you.

我想，当神慈悲时，它引导我走向正确，当神慈悲时，它通过更艰难的时光让我看到我有多么无知。谢谢。

Guest: Thank you very much.

来宾：非常感谢。