道路的交汇

I started on this quest for positive image of the future in nineteen forty five when the atomic bomb fell. I was fifteen years old and I remember it was the time when I was just beginning to find out what I wanted to do in life. And when that bomb fell I knew it was impossible to think about the personal future of myself without wondering where the world was going that was good. Because if that bomb was going to destroy the world there was no way that any individual could possibly move forward to their own potential.

我是在1945年原子弹落下的那一年，开始寻找未来正面形象的。当时我十五岁，我记得那正是我刚刚开始弄清楚自己这一生想做什么的时候。那颗炸弹落下时，我知道，如果不去想这个世界要往哪里走才是好的，就不可能去思考我个人的未来。因为如果那颗炸弹要毁灭世界，任何个人都不可能走向自己的潜能。

was good. Because if that bomb was going to destroy the world there was no way that any individual could possibly move forward to their own potential.

才是好的。因为如果那颗炸弹要毁灭世界，任何个人都不可能走向自己的潜能。

And the question arose in my mind that time and here is the following question.

那时我心里升起一个问题，就是下面这个问题。

What is the purpose of our power?

我们的力量是为了什么？

What is the purpose of science, technology, affluence?

科学、技术、富裕是为了什么？

What is the purpose of western civilization and ultimately what is the purpose of civilization itself?

西方文明是为了什么，归根结底，文明本身又是为了什么？

Because we could see with the dropping of the atomic bomb which is only in the very beginning of the incredible power the destruction of modern society, you could see that on the one hand that power could lead to total destruction. But I felt and still do most deeply in my heart that there is a meaning for that power over and beyond destruction. Then this leading to something not simply good, but something magnificent, glory untold, a quantum leap for the human race. Because you see if you have a quantum leap of destructiveness potential in the system there is also a quantum leap of creativity in that system.

因为原子弹的落下让我们看到——那还只是这惊人力量的最初开端——现代社会被摧毁，你能看到，一方面那种力量可以导致彻底的毁灭。但我当时感到，而且至今在我心里最深的地方仍然感到，那种力量除了毁灭之外还有一层意义。它会通向某种东西，不只是好，而是壮丽、难以言说的荣耀，是人类的一次量子跃迁。因为你看，如果一个系统里有毁灭潜能的量子跃迁，那个系统里也一定有创造力的量子跃迁。

race. Because you see if you have a quantum leap of destructiveness potential in the system there is also a quantum leap of creativity in that system.

类的一次量子跃迁。因为你看，如果一个系统里有毁灭潜能的量子跃迁，那个系统里也一定有创造力的量子跃迁。

So that we get question in mind what is the quantum link in the system, that the power might be for? I set up upon my quest. And after trying just about everything and I won't go into all the things, I tried, it didn't work. I came up with an idea, discovered an idea through many, many experiences that gave me the clue, the idea that gave me the clue to be answered to that question, what is the purpose of our power came from understanding the fantastic miracle of cosmic evolution.

所以我们心里会问，这个系统里的量子链接是什么？那种力量可能是为了什么？我踏上了我的追寻。在几乎什么都试过之后——我不去细讲我试过的那些东西——都不管用。我有了一个想法，是通过许许多多经历发现的一个想法，它给了我线索，让我能回答那个问题：我们的力量是为了什么。这个线索来自理解宇宙进化那了不起的奇迹。

gave me the clue to be answered to that question, what is the purpose of our power came from understanding the fantastic miracle of cosmic evolution.

给了我线索，让我能回答那个问题：我们的力量是为了什么。这个线索来自理解宇宙进化那了不起的奇迹。

(?) was probably my particular inspiration in this, I would like to take you on a fifteen billion year trip in three seconds. Start at the origin of creation about fifteen billion years ago. See yourself at the formation of earth, four and a half billion years ago. See yourself with the first cell three and a half million years ago. See yourself at the first animal life about eight hundred million years ago. See yourself with the dawn of human life two to three million years ago and now see yourself, starting in nineteen forty five, beginning to go around the loop again for another quantum leap of transformation.

（？）大概就是我在这一方面的特别灵感来源。我想用3秒钟带你走一趟一百五十亿年的旅程。从大约一百五十亿年前创世之初开始。看见你自己在四十五亿年前地球形成的时候。看见你自己在三百五十万年前和第一个细胞在一起。看见你自己在八亿年前和最早的生命在一起。看见你自己在二三百万年前人类生命初现的时候，再看你自己，从1945年开始，又绕回那个环，迎来又一次量子跃迁式的转变。

years ago and now see yourself, starting in nineteen forty five, beginning to go around the loop again for another quantum leap of transformation.

年前，再看你现在，从1945年开始，又绕回这个循环，为下一次量子跃迁式的转变做准备。

If you look at how nature transforms and how it transformed for fifteen billion years, what you see is long periods of incremental change leading up to system crisis, which actualizes potentials in the system, which through greater synthesis or synergy leads to radical leap of consciousness. From molecule to cell, from single cell to complex multi-cellular animal, leap in consciousness. From animal to human far more complex brain, leap in consciousness. And it's my thesis that starting about five thousand years ago in Egypt, India, Greece and then (?), Islam, there came individuals on earth in the next state of consciousness, pending and approaching a new norm.

如果你去看大自然是如何转变的，看它这一百五十亿年来怎么变，你会看到：长时间的渐进变化累积到系统危机，危机把系统里的潜能激活，再通过更高的综合与协同，带来意识的根本跃迁。从分子到细胞，从单细胞到复杂多细胞动物，意识跃迁。从动物到人类，大脑复杂得多，意识跃迁。我的论点是，大约从五千年前的埃及、印度、希腊开始，然后（？）、伊斯兰，地上就出现了进入下一种意识状态的人，他们预示着、也逼近着一个新的常态。

in Egypt, India, Greece and then (?), Islam, there came individuals on earth in the next state of consciousness, pending and approaching a new norm.

在埃及、印度、希腊，然后（？）、伊斯兰，地球上出现了处在下一种意识状态的人，正等待着、逼近着一个新的常态。

And that all up history, all of Homo sapien's life of fifty thousand years has been the story of the rise toward a new state of consciousness through increased complexity and integration leading at some point in history to a set of events that lead to radical transformation towards a new species. And it is my thought that nineteen forty five with the dropping of the atomic bomb marks the point of the turn of the spiral for humanity moving from the stage we are now in to the next stage. Now I won't have time to go into how we see the recurring pattern of over complexity and crisis. Actualizing potentials.

纵观整个历史，智人五万年的生活，就是一个朝向新意识状态上升的故事——靠不断增加的复杂性和整合，在历史某一刻导向一连串事件，走向一个新物种的根本转变。而我认为，1945年原子弹投下，标志着人类螺旋转折的那一刻，从我们现在所处的阶段进入下一个阶段。现在我没时间深入讲，我们怎么看到那种反复出现的模式：过度复杂和危机，激活潜能。

are now in to the next stage. Now I won't have time to go into how we see the recurring pattern of over complexity and crisis. Actualizing potentials.

所处的阶段进入下一个阶段。现在我没时间深入讲，我们怎么看到这个反复出现的模式：过度复杂与危机。激活潜能。

But if you look at the set of another crisis on earth right now, limits to growth, population, pollution, resource depletion, inflation and nuclear. You see a crisis of crisis that cannot be resolved in its own terms. Even if we stop fighting and stop polluting and stop growing as I pointed out in the club of Rome book limits to growth. Even if we stopped everything it would not suffice. Because the power of creativity and growth is much too great to hold.

但如果你看看现在地球上另一组危机，增长的极限、人口、污染、资源枯竭、通货膨胀和核危机。你看到的是一场靠它自身的条件无法解决的危机中的危机。就算我们停止争斗、停止污染、停止增长，就像我在罗马俱乐部那本《增长的极限》里指出的。就算我们停掉一切，也不够。因为创造和增长的力量太大，根本摁不住。

Rome book limits to growth. Even if we stopped everything it would not suffice. Because the power of creativity and growth is much too great to hold.

罗马俱乐部那本《增长的极限》。就算我们停掉一切，也不够。因为创造和增长的力量太大，根本摁不住。

Now I would like to take a little glimpse of the potentialities now dormant in our system. Many of them already operating, which if actualized would in fact lead to a radical transformation as radical as the nuclear holocaust or more. Here are some of them. The first and most radical capability in the human race is the capacity for higher consciousness itself. All throughout history we have had individuals in a state of cosmic, unitive, whole centered, God centered consciousness. Now millions and millions of us are moving in that direction. Not simply by idealism, but by the pressure of evolution itself.

现在我想稍微瞥一眼我们系统里那些还沉睡着的潜能。它们当中很多已经在运作了，一旦被实现，就会带来一场彻底的转变，其彻底程度不亚于核浩劫，甚至更甚。以下是其中一些。人类身上第一项、也是最彻底的能力，就是获得更高意识本身的能力。纵观历史，我们一直都有个体处在宇宙性的、合一的、以整体为中心的、以神为中心的意识状态里。现在，我们当中成百万成百万的人正在朝那个方向走。不是单靠理想主义，而是靠进化本身的压力。

centered consciousness. Now millions and millions of us are moving in that direction. Not simply by idealism, but by the pressure of evolution itself.

为中心的意识。现在，我们当中成百万成百万的人正在朝那个方向走。不是单靠理想主义，而是靠进化本身的压力。

I think we are approaching critical mass of people like ourselves here who already are experiencing oneness and I think so the thing that makes the difference in moving towards the next stage of government has to be somewhere the possibility of our whole centered consciousness. Because if we have to (?) our self into the next stage with that amount of power it doesn't look good. So I must (?) consciousness will rise towards the new whole, whole centered, God centered consciousness as in the norm.

我想我们正接近一个临界点，像我们这样已经体验到合一的人越来越多。我想，所以在走向下一个治理阶段这件事上，起决定作用的，必定是我们以整体为中心的意识的可能性。因为如果我们非得（？）把自己推进下一个阶段，带着那么大的力量，那看起来可不太妙。所以我必须（？）意识会朝着新的整体、以整体为中心、以神为中心的意识上升，成为常态。

Secondly, if you look at our power in the space program, you see that we are on the threshold of becoming physically a universal species. Our little space shuttle is a bus to the infinite. In the next twenty to fifty years by the years two thousand and eight if we were to do it right and if we don't blow ourselves up, while our consciousness is expanding, so is our physical environment. It is possible to restore this earth to preserve the environment here to limit growth here and to begin the exploration of an infinite universe.

第二，如果你看我们在太空计划里的力量，你会看到我们正处在成为一个物理上的宇宙物种的门槛上。我们那小小的航天飞机，是开往无限的一辆巴士。在未来 20 到 50 年里，到 2008 年，如果我们做得对、如果我们不把自己炸掉，那么在我们的意识扩张的同时，我们的物理环境也在扩张。有可能恢复这个地球，保护这里的环境，限制这里的增长，并开始探索一个无限的宇宙。

It is possible to restore this earth to preserve the environment here to limit growth here and to begin the exploration of an infinite universe.

在这片大地上，恢复是有可能的——保护这里的环境，限制这里的增长，并开始探索无限的宇宙。

There is no physical limit to the evolution of the human race if our consciousness can become whole. Then look what we are learning in the field of health. If we can combine what we know about healing with what we are learning in advance medical technology and move towards optimum wellness and holistic health, you see the outlines of the self healing, self regenerating humans in a universal environment, in a state of expanded consciousness. Then add to that what we now know in the fields of information.

如果我们的意识能够变得完整，人类种族的演化就没有物质上的极限。再看看我们在健康领域正在学到什么。如果我们能把已知的疗愈知识，与我们在先进医疗技术上正在学到的东西结合起来，朝着最佳健康状态和整全健康迈进，你就能看到自我疗愈、自我再生的人类在宇宙环境中、在扩展意识状态下的轮廓。再往上加，就是我们如今在信息领域所知道的东西。

Our intelligent machines or computers or cybernatics or robotics are actually the extension of the brain mind system, which if used in a state of whole centered consciousness in a universal environment lead to the possibility of freeing the individual from subhuman work.

我们那些智能机器、计算机、控制论或机器人技术，其实都是大脑—心智系统的延伸；若是在以整体为中心的完整意识状态下、在宇宙环境中使用，它们就能把个体从低于人的劳作中解放出来。

if used in a state of whole centered consciousness in a universal environment lead to the possibility of freeing the individual from subhuman work.

若是在以整体为中心的完整意识状态下、在宇宙环境中使用它们，就有可能把个体从低于人的劳作中解放出来。

I can see the possibility of our children born, not even in the year 2008, but less time from that inheriting the possibility of a cosmic civilization. A civilization in which we could begin to tap what is said to be the eighty or ninety percent unused, untapped human potential. Putting all that together with a lot more what you see is the outline I believe of a species, co-creative with God. I believe it is true that we are created in the image of God. And I sense that what's fundamentally happening is a shift in the relationship between humans and God. We have been children of God, but because we are created in God's image we have inherited the power. We are approaching tree of life.

我能看到一种可能：我们的孩子——甚至不用等到 2008 年，会更早——将继承一种宇宙文明的可能。在这种文明里，我们可以开始开采据说那百分之八十或九十未被使用、未被开发的人类潜能。把这一切，再跟多得多的东西放在一起，你看到的，我相信就是一个与神共同创造的物种轮廓。我相信，我们确实是按照神的形象被创造出来的。我感觉到，根本上正在发生的，是人与神之间关系的转变。我们一直是神的孩子，但因为我们是按照神的形象被创造出来的，我们继承了那力量。我们正在接近生命之树。

humans and God. We have been children of God, but because we are created in God's image we have inherited the power. We are approaching tree of life.

人与神。我们一直是神的孩子，但因为我们是按照神的形象被创造出来的，我们继承了那力量。我们正在接近生命之树。

And if we remain in self centeredness we will undergo some kind of Armageddon scenario, because we have to. But we have got a choice. I believe God put freedom in the system and what is that active freedom that we are capable of now. It has to be the kind of act that Patricia spoke about and it's so many millions I am speaking about. It's an act of joining. And the way we join at this stage the first level of it is a spiritual joining.

如果我们仍停留在以自我为中心，我们就会经历某种哈米吉多顿式的剧本，因为我们不得不。但我们有选择。我相信神把这自由放进了系统里，而我们现在有能力做出的那种主动自由，又是什么呢。它必须得是 Patricia 讲过的那种行动，也是我在讲的那么多、数百万人的那种行动。它是一种联结的行动。而我们在这个阶段联结的方式，它的第一层，就是灵性的联结。

If we choose to do that in this generation, in this lifetime and begin the simple steps that are now implicit in to overcome hunger, to meet the educational needs of people, to begin to tap this tremendous activity of individuals and begin the exploration of inner and outer space, you see in our generation the shift point to a vision of a positive future so glorious that only the saints seers of the human race have had a clue about it.

如果我们选择在这一代、在这一生就去做，迈出那些如今已是不言而喻的简单步骤——去克服饥荒，去满足人们的教育需求，去开始调动个体这股巨大的活动力，去开始探索内在与外在的空间，你们就会在我们这一代看到那个转折点，转向一个如此辉煌、积极的未来图景，辉煌到只有人类中的圣者和先知才隐约窥见过它。

in our generation the shift point to a vision of a positive future so glorious that only the saints seers of the human race have had a clue about it. And the thing that has absolutely galvanized me recently is my conviction that we are at that choice point now and that it would go to our Armageddon or towards a co-creative species.

在我们这一代，那个转折点会转向一个如此辉煌、积极的未来图景，辉煌到只有人类中的圣者和先知才隐约窥见过它。而最近真正让我热血沸腾的，是我确信我们现在就站在那个选择的关口，要么走向我们的末日之战（Armageddon），要么走向一个共同创造的物种。

In our lifetime and that we who have a chance to make a choice will make a difference for the entire world. Given that deep conviction I have all my life been a futurist, I have lectured, I have gone to meetings, I have gone to (?) I have written books, I have done everything I could think of and after my conversation with Patricia it's really you who did it to me.

在我们的有生之年，而我们这些有机会做出选择的人，将为整个世界带来改变。正是带着这份深深的信念，我一生都是一个未来主义者，我演讲过，我参加过会议，我去过（？），我写过书，我做了我能想到的一切，而在我和Patricia谈过之后，真正让我转变的其实是你。

gone to (?) I have written books, I have done everything I could think of and after my conversation with Patricia it's really you who did it to me.

去过（？），我写过书，我做了我能想到的一切，而在我和Patricia谈过之后，真正让我转变的其实是你。

It was last April, we spent a weekend Stinson beach, and she told me about the nuclear issue in depth. And I hadn't focused it, I hadn't wanted to focus on it and she pinned me down and I suddenly said to myself, "I have been responsible all my life but I thought someone else was in authority. Someone was in charge and I was helping. " But when I talked to Patricia I realized that there is no authority whatsoever in that behavior pattern. And that I had to shift from responsibility to authority.

那是去年四月，我们在Stinson海滩度过了一个周末，她向我深入讲了核问题。而我一直没有关注它，我一直不想去关注它，她把我逼到了墙角，我突然对自己说：「我这一辈子都在负责任，但我以为掌权的是别人。是别人在主管，而我在帮忙。」但当我跟Patricia谈过之后，我意识到，在那种行为模式里根本没有什么权威可言。我必须从负责任转变为掌权。

We have to shift from responsibility to authority. Meaning, authority for the acts that can save the world and due to a whole set of questions, I finally came up with unique idea and I see that man here in the audience who suggested it to me, Jack Baldwin. And here is the idea. I am going to run to be selected as the vice-presidential nominee on the democratic ticket in 1984.

我们必须从负责任转变为掌权。意思是，为那些能够拯救世界的行为掌权，而由于一整套问题，我最终想出了一个独特的主意，我在这里的听众中看到了那个向我提议的人，Jack Baldwin。这个主意是这样的。我要去竞选，争取在1984年被选为民主党副总统候选人。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Panelist: And you can ask me more about it later. My time is up.

座谈嘉宾：更多细节你可以稍后问我。我的时间到了。

(Applause)

（掌声）

vice-presidential nominee on the democratic ticket in 1984.

1984年被选为民主党副总统候选人。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Panelist: And you can ask me more about it later. My time is up.

座谈嘉宾：更多细节你可以稍后问我。我的时间到了。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Abdul Aziz Sait: After creating the universe God had a dream and in the dream God saw that God has created the universe and that only God (?) fourth time God said, "My God! I have created the whole universe and only I possess the secrets. Suppose something happens to me and I die... "

阿卜杜勒·阿齐兹·赛义特：神创造了宇宙之后，做了一个梦，在梦里神看见自己创造了宇宙，而且只有神（？）第四次神说：「我的神啊！我创造了整个宇宙，只有我掌握着那些秘密。万一我出了什么事，我死了……」

(Students' laughter...)

（学生们大笑……）

So God awakened and when God awakened, God said, "My God, I better do something about it. " So God made a first far impulsive decision and God created woman and man. So that man and woman, become a surprise for the universe and the universe becomes a paradise for them. Then God (?) and God said, "Now I'll make the second domestic politics decision. " And God took the keys of the secrets of the universe and said, "Keys, disappear. " Disappeared forever. And then God said that every man and every woman, in every moment of their life recreate the universe. So what could be cannot proceed from a denial of what is. We are it. There is nothing out there.

于是神醒了，神醒来的时候，神说：「我的神啊，我最好还是为此做点什么。」于是神做出了第一个冲动而深远的决定，神创造了女人和男人。好让男人和女人成为宇宙的一个惊喜，而宇宙成为他们的天堂。然后神（？）神说：「现在我要做第二个家务政治决定。」神拿起宇宙秘密的钥匙，说：「钥匙，消失吧。」永远消失了。然后神说，每一个男人和每一个女人，在他们生命中的每一个当下，都在重新创造这个宇宙。所以，可能的东西不可能从一个对现状的否定里产生出来。我们就是它。外面什么都没有。

God created the universe, maybe because God loves stories and storytelling.

神创造了宇宙，也许是因为神爱故事，爱讲故事。

proceed from a denial of what is. We are it. There is nothing out there.

可能的东西不可能从一个对现状的否定里产生出来。我们就是它。外面什么都没有。

God created the universe, maybe because God loves stories and storytelling.

神创造了宇宙，也许是因为神爱故事，爱讲故事。

For the past twenty-seven years I have been engaged in what is described as a professor of international relations, both on the theoretical level, writing, researching, teaching and on the pragmatic level. Being involved in activities with governments and I have become convinced that the instruments, the theories, the ways that we have at our disposal, cannot deal with the problems and the challenges facing us. Cannot. I have become convinced that they cannot. That with the (?) we have, with the fears we have, that (?) come up. So that may begin by sharing with you a first open secret on one condition that you share it with everyone.

过去二十七年，我一直从事所谓国际关系教授的工作，既在理论层面写作、研究、教学，也在实务层面参与和政府有关的活动。我越来越确信，我们手上的那些工具、那些理论、那些方法，无法应对我们面对的问题和挑战。无法。我越来越确信它们无法。凭借我们拥有的（？），凭借我们怀有的恐惧，（？）会冒出来。所以也许我可以先和你们分享第一个公开的秘密，条件是你们要把它分享给每一个人。

with the fears we have, that (?) come up. So that may begin by sharing with you a first open secret on one condition that you share it with everyone.

凭借我们怀有的恐惧，（？）会冒出来。所以也许我可以先和你们分享第一个公开的秘密，条件是你们要把它分享给每一个人。

That we do not have at this time in the best of our instrumentalities available to governments or available to scholars to deal with the problems of the universe. And when I say I want to share with you the first open secret, I have a younger son, he is now almost seven, he attends a catholic school, so he came one day and he said, this was when he was in the first grade, he said, "You know, today they talked about Jesus in school. Do you know him? "

那就是，此刻我们手上最好的工具，无论是政府能用的还是学者能用的，都无法应对宇宙的问题。当我说我想和你们分享第一个公开的秘密时——我有一个小儿子，他现在快七岁了，上的是天主教学校，有一天他回来，那时他上一年级，他说：「你知道吗，今天学校里讲了耶稣。你认识他吗？」

I said, "Why do you ask me? "

我说：「你为什么来问我？」

"Well he said, (?) they said he was born close to where you were born. "

他说：「（？）他们说他出生的地方离你出生的地方不远。」

I said, "Yes, I knew him. "

我说：「是的，我认识他。」

He said, "How well did you know him? "

他说：「你对他有多熟？」

Well I said, "Pretty well. "

我说：「相当熟。」

He said, "Did you play soccer together? "

他说：「你们一起踢过足球吗？」

I said, "Yes. "

我说：「踢过。」

He said, "What position did he play? "

他说：「他踢什么位置？」

I said, "Well, he kept changing positions. "

我说：「他老换位置。」

(Students' laughter...)

（学生们笑……）

"He never stayed in the same place. "

「他从不在同一个地方待着。」

He said, "Really? "

他说：「真的吗？」

I said, "Yes. "

我说：「真的。」

He said, "Thank you. "

他说：「谢谢你。」

changing positions. "

老是换位置。

(Students' laughter...)

（学生们笑……）

"He never stayed in the same place. "

「他从不在同一个地方待着。」

He said, "Really? "

他说：「真的吗？」

I said, "Yes. "

我说：「真的。」

He said, "Thank you. "

他说：「谢谢你。」

I said, "Son, I want to tell you something that Jesus told me, he told me a secret. But he told me that he will tell it to me on condition I tell to everyone. And I tell it you on condition you tell it to everyone. "

我说：「孩子，我想告诉你一件事，是耶稣告诉我的，他告诉了我一个秘密。但他告诉我，他讲给我听的条件是，我要把它讲给每一个人。我讲给你听的条件是，你要把它讲给每一个人。」

He said, "Sure, promise, open secret. "

他说：「当然，我保证，公开的秘密。」

I said, "Jesus told me that he had many names that they kept changing his names. Sometimes they called him Buddha, sometimes Mohammed, sometimes Abraham, they kept changing his name. "

我说：「耶稣告诉我，他有过很多名字，他们老是在换他的名字。有时他们叫他佛陀，有时叫穆罕默德，有时叫亚伯拉罕，他们一直在换他的名字。」

So when we think of peace what comes to me first and I mentioned it twenty six years, after about ten or fifteen years of being engaged in teaching international relations, one day I went to a classroom, I had one hundred freshmen, fresh persons, students, men and women. I looked and told them, I said, "Let me ask you a question. Whose international politics do you want me to teach you.? "

所以，当我们想到和平，我首先想到的，我在二十六年前就提过，在教国际关系大约十年、十五年之后，有一天我走进一间教室，里面有一百个大一新生，新人，学生，男男女女。我看着他们，对他们说：「让我问你们一个问题。你们想让我教你们谁的国际政治？」

And there was a blank on their faces. Well, I said, "Whose? "

他们脸上一片茫然。我说：「谁的国际政治？」

They said, "What do you mean? "

他们说：「你什么意思？」

international politics do you want me to teach you.? "

你们想让我教你们谁的国际政治？

And there was a blank on their faces. Well, I said, "Whose? "

他们脸上一片茫然。我说：「谁的？」

They said, "What do you mean? "

他们说：「你什么意思？」

Well, I said, "Do you want me to teach you the international politics of the Americans, of the Russians, of the Chinese, of the poor, of the rich, of the white, of the black? What came to me at that time that I have been involved in teaching international relations for so many years. But I have been teaching the international relation that I had been taught. So I asked my students as their first assignment to go and read the history of the world and not less than two hundred pages and come the next week and they did come next week and I asked the first one, "What was the most important historical event? "

我说：「你们想让我教你们美国人的国际政治、俄国人的、中国人的、穷人的、富人的、白人的、黑人的？那一刻我忽然想到，我教国际关系教了这么多年，可我一直在教别人教给我的那套国际关系。所以，我给我的学生布置的第一份作业，就是去读世界史，不少于二百页，下周回来。他们下周真回来了，我问第一个学生：「最重要的历史事件是什么？」

And the student said, "The sacking of Baghdad by the Mongolians. "

那个学生说：「蒙古人洗劫巴格达。」

And this kept going on and one after the other, they kept mentioning the important historical events. Then I said, "Now let's talk about the important historical persons as it is. "

就这样一个接一个地继续下去，他们不断提到那些重要的历史事件。然后我说：「现在我们就照实谈谈那些重要的历史人物吧。」

after the other, they kept mentioning the important historical events. Then I said, "Now let's talk about the important historical persons as it is. "

一个接一个地继续下去，他们不断提到那些重要的历史事件。然后我说：「现在我们就照实谈谈那些重要的历史人物吧。」

And they kept mentioning Hitler, Mussolini, Napoleon and this kept going on. And it became clear to me after listening to these students that the history of the world is written about empires, but not about people, not about villages and then I mentioned that to my students because I was teaching a course on human race. Because we have not really read the history of villages of people what has been happening to people. Then the second week I said, "Now go and read (?) the psychology of consciousness or go and read the teachings of (?), any similar book that (?) different things. "

他们不断提到希特勒、墨索里尼、拿破仑，就这样一直继续下去。听完这些学生的话，我明白了一件事：世界的历史是围绕帝国写成的，而不是围绕人，不是围绕村庄。然后我把这一点讲给我的学生听，因为我当时在教一门关于人类的课程。因为我们从来没有真正读过村庄的历史、人的历史，没读过人们身上到底在发生什么。到了第二周，我说：「现在去读一读意识的心理学，或者去读一读某某的教导，任何讲这些不同东西的类似的书都行。」

So they went, they came back and I think I told you the story, when they came back, I wanted a blackboard, I said, "Today we will begin the first formal presentation of the course. The title of the course is 'Introduction to world politics. '

于是他们去了，又回来了，我想我跟你们讲过这个故事，他们回来的时候，我要了一块黑板，我说：「今天我们要开始这门课的第一次正式讲授。这门课的名字叫『世界政治导论』。」

I said, "Causes of world war two. "

我说：「第二次世界大战的起因。」

begin the first formal presentation of the course. The title of the course is 'Introduction to world politics. '

开始这门课的第一次正式讲授。这门课的名字叫『世界政治导论』。

I said, "Causes of world war two. "

我说：「第二次世界大战的起因。」

They sat quiet, I said, "Course number one, imperialism... " I kept mentioning them, imperialism, colonialism, racism, sexism, everything. I kept mentioning all of them, everything I could think about. Then I put Hitler, put Mussolini, FDR, Jews, they put Jews. Then I said, "Bicycle riders. "

他们静静地坐着，我说：「第一课，帝国主义……」我不断地列举，帝国主义、殖民主义、种族主义、性别歧视，什么都有。我把我能想到的全都列了出来。然后我写上希特勒，写上墨索里尼，写上罗斯福，写上犹太人，他们加上了犹太人。然后我说：「骑自行车的人。」

And then one, of course (?) on left, (?) looked as (?) with a puzzlement in her eyes, she said, "Why bicycle riders? "

这时有一个人，当然坐在左边，眼里带着困惑地看着，她说：「为什么是骑自行车的人？」

I said, "Why Jews? "

我说：「那为什么是犹太人？」

Then we started talking about the reality. Whose international politics, whose reality, because I have been raised in the school of (?) or power politics. My professors told me that that is the real politic power politics. And I recall one day, I asked my professor, "How do you define power politics? "

然后我们开始谈现实。这是谁的国际政治，这是谁的现实？因为我从小受的就是权力政治那一套的教育。我的教授们告诉我，那才是真正的政治，权力政治。我记得有一天，我问我的教授：「你怎样定义权力政治？」

He said, "They are politics of reality. "

他说：「那是现实的政治。」

politic power politics. And I recall one day, I asked my professor, "How do you define power politics? "

权力政治。我记得有一天，我问我的教授：「你怎样定义权力政治？」

He said, "They are politics of reality. "

他说：「那是现实的政治。」

But where I came from, they are politics of reality. Internally I know that what I believed (?) what I see as reality. Culturally I know that my culture has hypnotized me deeply regarding how I see reality. And when he told me that the real politic were power politics, were politics of reality, then the story started unfolding before me again. What I am sharing with you is that about peace. One perspective that keeps coming to me is the question of faith about peace. Faith, F A I T H. And what I am attempting to say here, when I speak about faith related to peace, we have to become aware that peace is possible. We have to believe that's possible. That's what (?)

但在我来的地方，那些是现实的政治。在内在，我知道我所相信的（？）我所看作现实的东西。在文化上，我知道我的文化已经深深地催眠了我，影响着我如何看待现实。当他告诉我，真正的政治是权力政治，是现实的政治时，那个故事又开始在我面前展开。我要和你们分享的，是关于和平。一直在我心里浮现的一个角度，是关于和平的信念问题。信念，信 念。我在这里想说的是，当我谈到与和平相关的信念时，我们必须意识到和平是可能的。我们必须相信那是可能的。那就是（？）

, that peace is possible and related to faith, the issue of faith is a issue of time and space. And not only it is possible but when the question arises possible when, possible now, possible here, possible here and possible now.

，和平是可能的，而且和信念相关，信念的问题是时间和空间的问题。不只是它可能，而且当问题出现时——何时可能，现在就可能，何地可能，此地就可能，此地可能，此刻就可能。

time and space. And not only it is possible but when the question arises possible when, possible now, possible here, possible here and possible now.

以及时间和空间。不只是它可能，而且当问题出现时——何时可能，现在就可能，何地可能，此地就可能，此地可能，此刻就可能。

For me it (?), I cannot deal with peace by merely responding and operating on the level of disarmament I have to do this. On the level of hunger I have to do that, you all have to do that. On the level of governments we have to do that. All of these things have to be done. But simultaneously we have to deal with terms of peace on the level of the crisis of the mind, there is a level of the crisis of mind and the level of this connection between the mind and the heart. My sense is that the divine will has not abdicated after creating the universe.

对我来说它（？），我不能仅仅在裁军的层面上回应和运作来处理和平，我必须做这个。在饥饿的层面上我必须做那个，你们所有人都必须做那个。在政府的层面上我们必须做那个。所有这些东西都必须做。但与此同时，我们必须在心智危机的层面上处理和平的问题，有一个心智危机的层面，也有心智与心之间这个连接的层面。我的感觉是，神的意志在创造了宇宙之后并没有退位。

Because what has happened in the west, for the last one hundred, two hundred years, the proposition has evolved in the west somehow the divine will left after creating the universe. For me the divine will is well and alive. And when I think about east and west I am not talking about the geographic location but for me to divine will the other side of divine will is human responsibility.

因为在西方发生的情况是，过去一百年、两百年里，西方演变出这样一种主张：不知怎么的，神的意志在创造了宇宙之后就离开了。对我来说，神的意志安好而鲜活。当我思考东方和西方时，我谈的不是地理位置，但对我来说，神的意志的另一面就是人的责任。

about east and west I am not talking about the geographic location but for me to divine will the other side of divine will is human responsibility.

关于东方和西方，我谈的不是地理位置，但对我来说，神的意志的另一面就是人的责任。

In a situation, in an environment, in a society where there is the absence of divine will and the presence only of human responsibility as we have in the west, in the western tradition as it has evolved, the energies of society become misdirected. On the other hand the society is where there is divine will but absence of human responsibility as in much of the east, energies become dissipated. And for me east and west are not geographic again, each one of us has east and the west.

在一个环境里，在一个社会中，如果没有神的意志，只有人的责任——就像我们在西方、在西方传统演变至今的样貌里所见到的那样——社会的能量就会被误导。反过来，一个社会里如果有神的意志，却没有人的责任，就像东方大部分地方那样，能量就会耗散。而对我来说，东方和西方不再是地理上的概念，我们每个人身上都有东方和西方。

So when I speak of the crisis of the minds, I am really calling for a preparation, for the celebration of the union of the mind and the heart. And the celebration of the union of the mind and the heart manifest itself when we experience the humanization of the divine and the consecration of the human, when we experience, when we begin to remove the (?) and experience the divine in human form and when we remove the base, we not only experience the dividing human forms, in human form, we also discover that the human is divine. That the human has that (?)

所以，当我说到心智的危机，我真正在呼吁的是一种准备，为庆祝心智与心的结合做准备。而心智与心的结合一旦被庆祝，它就会显化出来——当我们经验到神的人性化、人的神圣化，当我们经验到、当我们开始移除（？）并经验到以人的形式显现的神，当我们移除那个基底，我们不只是经验到那些分裂的人的形式，不只是经验到人的形式，我们还会发现，人就是神。人拥有那（？）

the base, we not only experience the dividing human forms, in human form, we also discover that the human is divine. That the human has that (?)

那个基底，我们不只是经验到那些分裂的人的形式，不只是经验到人的形式，我们还会发现，人就是神。人拥有那（？）

And hence for me as someone who has been trying to interpret the pattern, because the pattern that I have shared with you is soul and myself agree on much of the path and because we are more or less in similar places in terms of how we see the world. But many of our colleagues do not agree with us. They do not agree with us, not because the data they see is different from the data we see. We are all looking at the same data, but how they interpret their patterns differs from ours and their interpretation is the difference of their pattern has to do with what it is we have been talking about, what it is that I have heard, those of us we are talking about.

因此，对我这样一个一直在尝试解读这个模式的人来说——因为我和你们分享的这个模式，是灵魂/真我和我自己在大部分道路上所见一致的，因为就我们看世界的方式而言，我们大致处在相似的位置。但我们很多同行不同意我们。他们不同意我们，不是因为他们看到的数据和我们看到的数据不同。我们看的都是同样的数据，只是他们对自己模式的解读和我们的不同，而他们的解读、他们模式的差异，和我们一直在谈的东西有关，和我听到的东西有关，和我们这些正在谈这件事的人有关。

the difference of their pattern has to do with what it is we have been talking about, what it is that I have heard, those of us we are talking about.

他们模式的差异，和我们一直在谈的东西有关，和我听到的东西有关，和我们这些正在谈这件事的人有关。

So for me then when I speak of the crisis of the mind, not only we have to deal with, with hunger, poverty, disarmament, governments, but we have to deal with the crisis of (?) it's a question of awakened (?) It's a question of awakening. So it's a question of faith, it's a question of awakening, it's a question of becoming aware of the contacts and awareness of contacts, a discovery, a discovery that the world does not merely consist of people and things but there is a pattern that connects everyone.

所以对我来说，当我谈到心智的危机时，我们不仅要面对饥饿、贫困、裁军、政府，还要面对（？）的危机，这是一个觉醒（？）的问题。这是一个觉醒的问题。所以这是一个信仰的问题，是一个觉醒的问题，是一个觉察到种种联结、觉察到联结的问题，是一种发现，一种发现——发现这个世界不仅仅由人和物组成，还有一种模式把所有人连接在一起。

That there is a relationship, that and for me it is an issue of experiencing an emotional and intellectual and a spiritual revolution simultaneously, so that I begin to see, I begin to experience first hand my biological life, the biological facts of my being, the spiritual facts of my being, the intellectual facts of my being. The oneness, the inter-relatedness. So it is for me then as it has been said before a question of awakening it is a question of dealing with that awakening. And there is an old song that captures that,

有一种关系，而对我来说，这是一个同时经历情感、智性和灵性革命的问题，这样我才开始看见，我开始亲身经验我生物性的生命、我存在的生物性事实、我存在的灵性事实、我存在的智性事实。那合一，那相互关联。所以对我来说，就像之前说过的，这是一个觉醒的问题，是一个应对那觉醒的问题。有一首老歌抓住了这一点，

then as it has been said before a question of awakening it is a question of dealing with that awakening. And there is an old song that captures that,

就像之前说过的，这是一个觉醒的问题，是一个应对那觉醒的问题。有一首老歌抓住了这一点，

(Sings a song.)

（唱一首歌。）

Awaken my beloved, do not sleep, for the seeker of truth never sleeps. Awaken my beloved do not sleep, for the sky and the earth never sleep, awaken my beloved do not sleep, then (?) goes through all the prophets. All their prophecies, then the song concludes, awaken my beloved do not sleep, for there are no sins to be beholden, there are no sins to be experienced except one sin and that sin is for lovers to sleep, because lovers must never sleep, lovers must never sleep. And then it was said, it was said by a small child, when the small child was asked, "Where is your homeland? "

醒来吧，我的挚爱，不要睡，因为求道者从不睡。醒来吧，我的挚爱，不要睡，因为天空和大地从不睡，醒来吧，我的挚爱，不要睡，然后（？）贯穿所有先知。他们所有的预言，然后这首歌这样结束：醒来吧，我的挚爱，不要睡，因为没有什么罪需要去背负，没有什么罪需要去经历，只有一个罪，那个罪就是相爱的人睡着了，因为相爱的人绝不能睡，相爱的人绝不能睡。然后有人说，是一个小孩子说的，当那个小孩子被问到：「你的家乡在哪里？」

And the child said, "If my love for you makes you forget the past, and your heart can see only the moment then come to me, innocence is my nationality, simplicity is my identity, it's given only to those who stay to build the new homeland. "

那个孩子说：「如果我对你的爱让你忘掉过去，你的心只能看见当下，那就到我这里来，纯真就是我的国籍，朴素就是我的身份，它只赐给那些留下来建造新家乡的人。」

Assalam valaykum!

Assalam valaykum！

(Applause)

（掌声）

innocence is my nationality, simplicity is my identity, it's given only to those who stay to build the new homeland. "

纯真就是我的国籍，朴素就是我的身份，它只赐给那些留下来建造新家乡的人。」

Assalam valaykum!

Assalam valaykum！

(Applause)

（掌声）

Monitor: Now let's just have a moment of silence and let the thoughts percolate a bit and we are going to ask the panelists to converse with each other and then we will be taking questions and I hope you will be having some cards made available soon. Yes, if you want the card raise just raise your hand, and it's period now and we will come to you. Let's just have a moment.

主持人：现在让我们先静默片刻，让念头慢慢沉淀一下。接下来我们会请各位嘉宾彼此交谈，然后我们会回答问题。我希望很快会有一些卡片发给大家。是的，如果你想要卡片，只要举手就行，现在时间到了，我们会来找你。让我们先静默片刻。

Thank you, I know you are all wondering if I got that quote together yet and I am going to share it with you; just imagine what could be if we could be what we should be. Very simple form of many of the comments that have been coming to us. Imagine what could be, if we would be, what we should be. Now we are going to have conversing, do you feel like you can teach other well enough or would you like to turn your seats in somewhat, you can also handover the microphones and please how you want to speak.

谢谢，我知道你们都想知道我有没有把那段话组合好，我这就跟你们分享；只要想象一下，如果我们能成为我们该成为的样子，会是什么样。这是我们收到的许多评论的极简形式。想象一下，如果我们能成为我们该成为的样子，会是什么样。现在我们要开始交谈了，你们觉得自己能足够好地教导彼此吗，还是想把座位稍微转一转，你们也可以把麦克风传过去，请按你们想要的方式发言。

(Conversation)

（交谈）

All right folks, if you would, let's reconvene. (?) that kick us off with a... I am sure of (?) remark.

好了，各位，如果你们愿意，让我们重新聚拢。（？）让我们从一个……开始，我相信（？）的评论。

please how you want to speak.

请按你们想要的方式发言。

(Conversation)

（交谈）

All right folks, if you would, let's reconvene. (?) that kick us off with a... I am sure of (?) remark.

好了，各位，如果你们愿意，让我们重新聚拢。（？）让我们从一个……开始，我相信（？）的评论。

Guest: Well, I am wearing a buckle which is the tree of life, I come from a (?) Jewish family, I have just done my forty seventh (?) and if we want me to do, (?) which is the (?) night prayer for welcoming the Sabbath bride, I can do that for you. That's all by prelude because I am about to be what we call (?). That's a person who shows the reverence for religion. But I now mean it in a rather serious way and the reason I asked to talk first is that the four other people and myself I think have a problem with regard to both (?) and maybe belief.

嘉宾：嗯，我戴着一个搭扣，是生命之树的形状，我来自一个（？）犹太家庭，我刚刚做完了我的第四十七次（？），如果你们想让我做，（？）那是迎接安息日新娘的（？）夜间祈祷，我可以为你们做。这些都只是前奏，因为我即将成为我们所说的（？）。那是一个对宗教表达敬意的人。但我现在说这话是相当认真的，我要求第一个发言的原因是，另外四个人和我自己，我想都在（？）以及或许信仰方面有个问题。

way and the reason I asked to talk first is that the four other people and myself I think have a problem with regard to both (?) and maybe belief.

的方式，我要求第一个发言的原因是，另外四个人和我自己，我想都在（？）以及或许信仰方面有个问题。

There has been a good deal of discussion up here about Divinity in God. And I feel that what is necessary for the next twenty-five years to avoid Armageddon and to bring about the positive vision that (?) was talking about is the spiritual revolution. But I find it difficult to utilize the terminology, the style, the form of entry into the problem that is being used by my fellow panelists with regard to the use of the Divinity. Indeed I find even, I agree that we have very many things in common, looking (?) I disagree with (?) years.

在这里已经有不少关于神性、关于神的讨论。我觉得，接下来二十五年里，要避免世界末日，要实现（？）所说的那种正向愿景，必须要做的就是灵性革命。但我发现很难使用我的同行嘉宾们在使用神性时所用的那套术语、风格和进入问题的方式。的确，我发现甚至，我同意我们有很多共同点，看（？）我不同意（？）年。

But to hold your main values, who is through the notion of Divinity, who do not see any unfolding towards some co-creative, are really decent, marvelous people and to the extent to which we are trying to build a genuine global movement I now ask it as a question.

但要守住你核心的价值观，那透过神性（Divinity）的观念而来的，看不到任何朝向共同创造（co-creative）的展开——他们真是正派、了不起的人。而就我们正试图建立一场真正的全球运动而言，我现在把它当作一个问题提出来。

are really decent, marvelous people and to the extent to which we are trying to build a genuine global movement I now ask it as a question.

他们真是正派、了不起的人。而就我们正试图建立一场真正的全球运动而言，我现在把它当作一个问题提出来。

See I said to you one of my questions, one of my four questions is that (?) One of my four questions is, how do the people who are in spiritual transformation and political transformation interact. I realize that sometimes when I speak before this kind of audience, my kind of using, if I used to teach (?) analysis or IR concepts or political science theory, if would have gone across with absolute not that you would not have understood it, you would say, it's totally irrelevant.

你看，我跟你说过我的一个问题，我四个问题之一就是（？）我四个问题之一是：那些处在灵性转化和政治转化中的人，他们如何互动。我意识到，有时我在这种听众面前讲话，我用——如果我过去教（？）分析，或者国际关系（IR)概念，或者政治学理论，那讲出来绝对——倒不是说你们听不懂，你们会说，这完全不相干。

And in a way I agree with you, we are trying to change to put it in our terminology the paradigm, but when you come across with the Divinity and you come across with this revelation and this coming together, you turn a whole (?) and we have got to together.

而在某种意义上我同意你们的看法，我们正试图改变——用我们的术语来说——范式，但当你遇到神性，遇到这个启示，遇到这个汇聚，你就转出一个整体（？），我们必须在一起。

Panelist: (----).

小组成员：（----）。

the Divinity and you come across with this revelation and this coming together, you turn a whole (?) and we have got to together.

神性，你遇到这个启示，遇到这个汇聚，你就转出一个整体（？），我们必须在一起。

Panelist: (----).

小组成员：（----）。

Abdul Aziz Sait: (?) What I am saying... Let me very quickly, I think (?) we are (?) is in words. In the sense that four, a very quick story about (?), (?) in Algeria, this is a story (?) early twentieth century and it is told by Martin Links in one of his books, (?) was known in Algeria to be one of the important Sufi leaders. And there was a young French medical doctor who had migrated to Algeria, wanted to meet with him, but he could never meet with him because he was informed that this (?) doesn't see foreigners. Many months later the French medical doctor received the messenger from (?) asking him to see (?) because (?) was sick so the French doctor goes to see (?)

Abdul Aziz Sait:（？）我在说的是……让我很快地说，我想（？）我们是（？）在于言辞。某种意义上说，四个，一个关于（？）很快的故事，（？）在阿尔及利亚，这是一个故事（？）二十世纪初，是 Martin Links 在他的一本书里讲的，（？）在阿尔及利亚被认作重要的苏菲领袖之一。有一个年轻的法国医生移民到了阿尔及利亚，想见他，但一直见不到，因为他被告知这位（？）不见外国人。许多个月后，这位法国医生收到（？）的使者来请他去看（？），因为（？）生病了。于是法国医生去看（？）

Aleve and they become friends and after many years one day the French medical doctor looks at (?), said, "(?), there is one thing that is deep within me, that is bothering me, I want to tell you about it. "

Aleve，他们成了朋友。许多年后有一天，这位法国医生看着（？），说：“（？），有一件事深埋在我心里，一直困扰着我，我想跟你说说。”

He said, "What's that doctor? "

他说：“什么事，医生？”

at (?), said, "(?), there is one thing that is deep within me, that is bothering me, I want to tell you about it. "

在（？），说：“（？），有一件事深埋在我心里，一直困扰着我，我想跟你说说。”

He said, "What's that doctor? "

他说：“什么事，医生？”

He said, "What you don't know and I have been waiting for you to ask me is that I am an atheist, I don't believe in God. And you have given me so much of your time, so much of your love. "

他说：“有一件事你不知道，而我一直等着你问我——我是个无神论者，我不信神。可你却给了我这么多时间，这么多爱。”

When (?) heard the doctor say that he stood up, went and kissed the feet of the atheist doctor. So doctor said, "How come you are kissing my feet? "

当（？）听到这位医生这么说，他站起来，走过去亲吻了这位无神论医生的脚。医生就说：“你怎么来亲我的脚？”

He said, "The main reason I sent to see you many, many years ago was because I wanted to meet you. I heard in Algeria that there is a young French medical doctor who helps the poor, without taking money from them, who goes to their houses, who gives them gifts, who gives them money and now that you tell me you are an atheist, I kiss your feet, I have been meditating and contemplating for seventy years, eighty years, how did you learn how to do it? How did you learn how to do it... "

他说：“我很多很多年前被派来见你，主要就是因为我想见到你。我在阿尔及利亚听说，有一位年轻的法国医生帮助穷人，不收他们的钱，到他们家里去，给他们礼物，给他们钱。而现在你告诉我你是无神论者，我就亲吻你的脚。我冥想、沉思了70年、80年，你是怎么学会这么做的？你是怎么学会这么做的……”

feet, I have been meditating and contemplating for seventy years, eighty years, how did you learn how to do it? How did you learn how to do it... "

脚，我冥想、沉思了70年、80年，你是怎么学会这么做的？你是怎么学会这么做的……”

YB: I'll explain to you right now, God is under attack. God is under attack, so the spiritual people. We who practice and teach about God, we are not totally God and somewhere we are dishonest. And our dishonesty is the handicap of the intellectual propaganda if all the men of God, rabbis, murshid, murids, students, teachers, yogis, swamis, priest, father, padres, honestly teach spirituality we would not have needed this conference at all.

YB：我现在就给你解释，神正在遭受攻击。神正在遭受攻击，灵性的人也一样。我们这些修习神、教导神的人，我们并不完全是神，在某些地方我们不诚实。而我们的不诚实，正是那场智性宣传的障碍。如果所有属神的人——拉比、murshid、murid、学生、老师、瑜伽士、尊者、神父、牧师、padres——都诚实地教导灵性，我们根本就不需要这场会议。

The problem is that when I pass through these roads, I see synagogues, I see temples, I see mosques, even my ashrams are so many that I don't know how many they are. It's not untrue. There are eight major religions, there are total twenty-two religions, there are more saints than anybody can count, more religious people than ever can bother, you can ask for a person who sell you sandwiches and there will be distance, but there is hardly any distance between two religious leaders or two religious teachers and all that. Basically we are all religious.

问题在于，当我走过这些路，我看到犹太会堂，我看到寺庙，我看到清真寺，连我的灵修社区都多到我不知道有多少个。这不是假话。有8大宗教，总共有22个宗教，圣徒多到谁也数不清，信教的人比谁愿意操心的都多，你可以去找一个卖你三明治的人，都会隔着一层距离，可两个宗教领袖、两个宗教教师之间，几乎没有什么距离，诸如此类。基本上，我们全都是信教的。

Side B

B面

but there is hardly any distance between two religious leaders or two religious teachers and all that. Basically we are all religious.

可两个宗教领袖、两个宗教教师之间，几乎没有什么距离，诸如此类。基本上，我们全都是信教的。

Side B

B面

... And there was a very barbarous man, abusively yelling and screaming, I am a holy man, I can't repeat those dirty calls he was calling on all those people, but he was admitted as a first man into the heaven. Everybody protested, they said, "What is this? We are the cream of the God and we are going by checking our identity and this," they used word bastard, but my apologies, I can't use it, but you understand it.

……有一个非常野蛮的人，辱骂着、尖叫着，我是个圣人，我没法重复他对那些人喊的那些脏话，可他却是第一个被迎进天堂的人。所有人都抗议，他们说：“这算什么？我们是神的精华，我们还得检查身份、查这个那个，”他们用了个词叫杂种，抱歉，我说不出口，但你明白那意思。

(Students' laughter...)

（学生们笑了……）

"Is being admitted over and above us. " And the angel was asked and the angel said, "All these sixty-four years he lived on the earth, he abused God. And all the sixty-four years you lived, you never seriously abused God once. All God understand is the attention, language is the earth's problem, we in the heavens do not understand that. This man paid total attention to God, therefore this man has preference over you, you go through your regular check up and he is admitted. "

“他倒排在我们前面被迎进去了。”天使被问了，天使说：“这64年他活在地上，一直在骂神。而你这64年，一次都没有认真骂过神。神懂的只有注意力，语言是地球上的麻烦，我们在天堂不懂那个。这个人把全部的注意力都给了神，所以这个人比你们有优先权，你们去走你们那套例行检查，他先进去了。”

that. This man paid total attention to God, therefore this man has preference over you, you go through your regular check up and he is admitted. "

那。这个人把全部的注意力都给了神，所以这个人比你们有优先权，你们去走你们那套例行检查，他先进去了。”

Problem here is if the mankind could have taught the science of reality as a religion with upper honesty of consciousness and with integrity of truthfulness we would have never had the first world war, the second world war and the third world war.

这里的问题在于，如果人类能把真相的科学当作一门宗教来教，怀着意识至高的诚实和对真理的拳拳正直，我们就根本不会有第一次世界大战、第二次世界大战和第三次世界大战。

Patricia (?): I would like to make an observation about it. I think there is some truth to the fact that the human species got disconnected in consciousness from God at the beginning.

Patricia（？）：我想对此说一点观察。我觉得有这么个事实有几分道理：人类这个物种在意识上，从一开始就跟神断了连接。

YB: Even now.

YB：现在也还是。

Patricia (?): Yeah, I mean at the beginning if you take the story of the Garden of Eden as the symbolic story that somewhere the big brain creature grew up in an environment and had some shock which caused us to have an increased intelligence with the illusion of separation from the creation, from nature and from God. And every spiritual individual that come in has come into correct the defect to reconnect something that should not have been separated in the first place.

Patricia（？）：对，我是说，如果从一开始，你把伊甸园的故事当作一个象征故事来看，在某个地方，那个大脑发达的生物在一个环境里长大，经历了某种冲击，那冲击让我们的智力增长了，同时却带来了跟造物、跟自然、跟神分离的幻象。而每一个进来的灵性个体，都是来修正这个缺陷的，来重新连接上那本就根本不该分开的东西。

YB: Don't you agree that we connect, we correct the defect and create another defect side by side?

YB：你难道不觉得，我们在连接，我们修正了那个缺陷，同时又在旁边造出另一个缺陷？

should not have been separated in the first place.

本就根本不该分开的东西。

YB: Don't you agree that we connect, we correct the defect and create another defect side by side?

YB：你难道不觉得，我们在连接，我们修正了那个缺陷，同时又在旁边造出另一个缺陷？

Patricia (?): So far, that's correct...

Patricia（？）：到目前为止，是这样……

YB: Jesus said, don't worship the statues and I have never seen one church where his statue is not on the door to meet me.

YB：耶稣说，不要崇拜那些雕像，可我从没见过哪间教堂不把他的雕像摆在门口来迎我。

Patricia (?): I know, but here is the drama, because we have now inherited so much power, the defect becomes lethal.

Patricia（？）：我知道，但这里的戏剧性在于，因为我们现在继承了这么多的力量，这个缺陷就变得致命了。

YB: Hallelujah! That I agree.

YB：哈利路亚！这一点我同意。

Patricia: And there has to be, if we are going to survive some way in which we reconnect relatively fast, and when I use the word spirituality, for me it's an evolution of consciousness to be aware of the patterns of creation. It is in the religion, it is an awareness of consciousness.

Patricia：而且必须有，如果我们想以某种方式生存下去，就得有办法相对快速地重新连接，当我用「灵性」这个词时，对我来说它是意识的一种进化，去觉知创造的种种模式。它在宗教里，它是意识的一种觉知。

for me it's an evolution of consciousness to be aware of the patterns of creation. It is in the religion, it is an awareness of consciousness.

对我来说，它是意识的一种进化，去觉知创造的种种模式。它在宗教里，它是意识的一种觉知。

YB: If atheist, atheist denies God and remember by denying God more the times than a meditating yogi. Question is, it's a matter of what directions we take. I think the professor can tell us how deep atheist is, because when he was speaking he was referring to God as an atheist more in the very polite sense than in my talk I refer to God as a positive, one to one basis. My personal feeling is, if we all wake up to the fact that we are creatures and there is a creation and we leave this security of defense mechanism of the world to be as the world doesn't need any defense. It is being...

YB：如果无神论者，无神论者否认神，记住，他否认神的次数比一个冥想的瑜伽士还多。问题在于，这是我们选择什么方向的问题。我想教授可以告诉我们无神论者有多深，因为他在讲话时提到神，是以一种非常礼貌的无神论者的方式，而我在讲话中提到神，是基于正向的、一对一的基础。我个人的感受是，如果我们都醒悟到这个事实：我们是受造物，存在着一个创造，我们放下这个世界上防御机制的安全感，因为世界不需要任何防御。它本就……

I am asking one question to all of you, how many gallons of petrol or gasoline we need to rotate the earth everyday? It is rotating, if God can rotate the earth, it can take care of our routine. I think we are not in trouble. We want war for one reason. We want to showoff. But now the war has become there shall be no showoff after this war.

我问你们大家一个问题，我们每天需要多少加仑的汽油或柴油才能让地球转动？它在转动，如果神能让地球转动，它就能照顾我们的日常。我想我们并没有陷入困境。我们要战争，只有一个原因。我们想炫耀。但现在战争已经变成了这样：这场战争之后，不会再有炫耀了。

I think we are not in trouble. We want war for one reason. We want to showoff. But now the war has become there shall be no showoff after this war.

我想我们并没有陷入困境。我们要战争，只有一个原因。我们想炫耀。但现在战争已经变成了这样：这场战争之后，不会再有炫耀了。

Panelist: There are two separate questions. One question is in order to bring about the change that will bring into being the vision of (?) talks about that people have to reconnect to something that human beings have lost. How he demonstrates that that's the case it's difficult for me to see, but that's question one.

小组成员：这是两个分开的问题。一个问题是，为了实现那个将带来（？）所谈愿景的转变，人们必须重新连接到人类已经失去的某种东西。他如何证明情况就是如此，这对我来说很难看清，但这是第一个问题。

And question two is a pure pragmatic question. Whether that is correct or not, what is the way you get people who are engaged in transforming the world through political activity to come along with you? What is the (?) of persuasion? Those are the two separate questions, and the first one I am less convinced than Barbara is that that's the case although I myself believe that my own motivation comes from others call spirituality. And then the second one I think we do a lousy job. I don't think (?) does a good job of talking to each other in the way is congenial or make friends or get little own comradeship and moving forward and that's the point I was trying to raise.

第二个问题是纯务实的问题。不管它对不对，你要怎么让那些投身于通过政治活动改变世界的人跟上你？说服的门道是什么？这是两个分开的问题，而第一个，我不像芭芭拉那么确信情况就是如此，虽然我自己也相信我的动力来自别人所称的灵性。至于第二个，我觉得我们做得很糟。我不认为我们彼此交谈的方式是融洽的，或是能交朋友、能有一点自己的同袍情谊、能一起往前走，而这就是我想提的那一点。

to each other in the way is congenial or make friends or get little own comradeship and moving forward and that's the point I was trying to raise.

彼此交谈的方式是融洽的，或是能交朋友、能有一点自己的同袍情谊、能一起往前走，而这就是我想提的那一点。

Another Panelist: Part of my experience with you is, couple of your points is when I meant you are quite correct about language and I think we have to talk about this. While when, I invite you to my home, or you invite me to your home, when I go home, I can go back to the back door or the window, when I invite someone to my house, they have to come through the front door, meaning (?) we have to translate what it is about peace in a language that is acceptable and translatable. To that extent I am fully aware about what you are saying. Well the other thing that I am sharing with you this on.

另一位座谈嘉宾：我和你相处的一部分经历是，你的几个观点是，当我说到，你在语言上说得完全对，我认为我们必须谈这一点。而当我邀请你来我家，或者你邀请我去你家，我回家时，我可以走后门或从窗户进去，可我邀请别人来我家时，他们得从前门进来，意思是说，我们得用一种可接受、可被翻译的语言去转译和平到底是什么。到这个程度，我完全清楚你在说什么。那么另一件我要和你分享的是这一点。

Like you, as you said earlier, we both can talk very pragmatically about step by step governance but I really differ with you, I may differ, I am not sure whether we differ on this or not. I have a feeling that in my experience with the west and I have lived in the west for thirty years. Many western intellectuals have problems with God, because for them God is an idea, it's a faith.

就像你，如你先前所说，我们俩都能非常务实地谈一步一步的治理，但我确实与你不同，我可能不同，我不确定我们在这点上是否不同。我有一种感觉，以我在西方的经验，我在西方住了三十年。许多西方知识分子对神有意见，因为对他们来说，神是一个观念，是一种信仰。

west and I have lived in the west for thirty years. Many western intellectuals have problems with God, because for them God is an idea, it's a faith.

西方，我在西方住了三十年。许多西方知识分子对神有意见，因为对他们来说，神是一个观念，是一种信仰。

In my tradition God is a (?) I tell you. God is not a faith it's not an idea. And hence I agree with you. A good number of men and women in their transformation movement are really agnostic, they really don't feel very comfortable with the idea of God, because for them God is a faith, God is an idea, but when we begin that with another perspective, that's what I was trying to share with you but I am in full agreement with (?) what you are saying (?) that we have to begin to translate what you are saying in a language acceptable.

在我的传统里，神是一种存在，我告诉你。神不是一种信仰，不是一个观念。因此我同意你。在转变运动中的许许多多男人和女人其实是不可知论者，他们对神这个观念真的不太自在，因为对他们来说，神是一种信仰，神是一个观念，但当我们从另一个视角开始谈，这就是我一直想和你分享的，不过我完全同意你说的，我们必须开始用一种可接受的语言去转译你在说的话。

YB: I have a question, I need clarification. In the east God cannot be denied, it's not a idea, it's a reality. In the west God is an idea can be accepted and can be denied. But east had a war and west had a war, what is going on? Please explain.

Yogi Bhajan：我有个问题，我需要澄清一下。在东方，神是无法被否定的，它不是一个观念，它是实相。在西方，神是一个观念，可以被接受，也可以被否定。可东方打过仗，西方也打过仗，这到底是怎么回事？请解释一下。

Panelist: Well, you see, again east and west are not geographic. East and west at any given time dominate in one person and dominate in the systems of that person.

座谈嘉宾：这个嘛，你看，东与西又不是地理上的。东与西在任何时候都可能在一个人身上占主导，在那个人的各个系统里占主导。

YB: I know my west is Japan, because I live in Los Angeles, no problem. My east is...

Yogi Bhajan：我知道我的西边是日本，因为我住在洛杉矶，没问题。我的东边是……

in one person and dominate in the systems of that person.

在那个人的身上占主导，在那个人的各个系统里占主导。

YB: I know my west is Japan, because I live in Los Angeles, no problem. My east is...

Yogi Bhajan：我知道我的西边是日本，因为我住在洛杉矶，没问题。我的东边是……

Panelist:... Hence, when we speak about east and west...

座谈嘉宾：……所以说，当我们谈到东与西……

YB: No, no, why the eastern mind, which is thousands of years old, which cannot deny God. I have walked among them, I have lived among them, I have talked with them, they talk so sweet, so beautiful, so..., but they have a...

Yogi Bhajan：不，不，为什么那东方的心智，有几千年的历史，它无法否定神。我在他们中间走过，我在他们中间生活过，我和他们交谈过，他们说话那么甜美，那么美好，那么……，可他们有一个……

Panelist: That I was trying to share myself, when I speak about divine will and human responsibility. In the absence of human responsibility there is a direction of that divine will, that's what is my experience of that. That's why war. Now why war now, that's a different story but why war throughout history, yes (?). (?) there was been a separation, for me I cannot fully accept the language used in the west about self-realization, self realization for me is a meaningless term, for me what (?) God discovers self (?) through me. That's how I feel and that's the human responsibility.

座谈嘉宾：这正是我自己想分享的，当我说到神圣的意志和人的责任。人若不承担责任，神圣的意志就会有一个方向，这就是我的体验。所以才有战争。至于为什么现在有战争，那是另一个故事，但为什么历史上一直有战争，是的（？）。（？）一直有一种分离，对我来说，我无法完全接受西方用的「自我实现」这个说法，自我实现对我来说是个没有意义的词，对我来说（？）神通过我（？）发现它自身。这是我的感受，而这就是人的责任。

realization for me is a meaningless term, for me what (?) God discovers self (?) through me. That's how I feel and that's the human responsibility.

自我实现对我来说是个没有意义的词，对我来说（？）神通过我（？）发现它自身。这是我的感受，而这就是人的责任。

YB: I understand, that's the finest thought west will learn in other two thousand years. What is America? Two hundred years, it's a crawling baby, it doesn't know how to change its diapers. What is Russia? Forget about that. I am talking of those civilization which has thousands and thousands, I went to Burma, they gave me seven days visa. I saw people meditating in stillness of absoluteness that I could figure out in that remote area there is a some man meditating, I located him. With that beacon of his meditation but when I talked about him, he started talking about the price of the rice. And it totally shocked me.

Yogi Bhajan：我明白，这是西方再过两千年会学到的最精微的思想。美国是什么？两百年，它是个还在爬的婴儿，连尿布都不会换。俄罗斯是什么？别提了。我说的是那些有成千上万年历史的文明。我去过缅甸，他们给了我7天签证。我看见人们在绝对的寂静中冥想，我能在那个偏远的地区辨认出有个人在冥想，我找到了他。凭着他冥想的那盏明灯，可当我谈起他时，他却开始谈米价。这让我彻底震惊。

What I am trying to understand if one of the panelist can guide me, I want to ask a question. What is happening to the west or east is not the problem, what is happening to us, why as human beings as a race we are not total honest?

我想弄明白的一件事，如果哪位座谈嘉宾能给我指点一下，我想问个问题。东西方正在发生什么，这不是问题所在；问题是我们自己身上正在发生什么，为什么我们作为人类、作为一个种族，不能做到彻底的诚实？

a question. What is happening to the west or east is not the problem, what is happening to us, why as human beings as a race we are not total honest?

一个问题。东西方正在发生什么，这不是问题所在；问题是我们自己身上正在发生什么，为什么我们作为人类、作为一个种族，不能做到彻底的诚实？

Lady panelist: I really think it has to do with the evolution of consciousness. Taking that evolutionary spiral, Homo sapiens is still quite young. The whole human species is only fifty thousand years old.

女座谈嘉宾：我真觉得这跟意识的演化有关。沿着那条演化的螺旋来看，智人还相当年轻。整个人类物种也只有五万年的历史。

YB: Quite a age.

Yogi Bhajan：年纪可不小了。

Panelist: It's quite young as far as species go. And we have a lot of untapped potential.

座谈嘉宾：就物种而言，这已经算相当年轻了。而且我们还有大量尚未开发的潜能。

YB: Madam vice-president, listen to this. You tell me that we are very young, then we should be very alert, we should be very learning, then we should not fight.

Yogi Bhajan：副主席女士，听听这个。你告诉我我们很年轻，那我们就应该非常警觉，就应该非常善于学习，那我们就更不应该打仗。

Lady panelist: Oh! Well, we are alert and children fight a lot.

女座谈嘉宾：哦！这个嘛，我们是挺警觉的，而孩子本来就会打很多架。

YB: This fight is going to cost us total self.

Yogi Bhajan：这场仗会让我们赔上整个自己。

Lady panelist: That's it, that's why we have to grow up fast. That's really what it's about. (?) of consciousness, I think saw one of the possibilities comes from the (?) of hundred monkeys, the (?) seal, the consciousness feels that it's been saturated over the centuries, that at some point there is sufficient consciousness to make it more accessible to all of us. I think that's happening.

女座谈嘉宾：就是这样，所以我们必须快快长大。问题的实质就在这里。（？）的意识，我想我看到其中一种可能性来自（？）一百只猴子，（？）印记，意识觉得自己这几个世纪以来已经被填满了，到了某个点上，意识已经足够充足，可以让我们所有人更容易触及它。我想这正是现在发生的事。

saturated over the centuries, that at some point there is sufficient consciousness to make it more accessible to all of us. I think that's happening.

这几个世纪以来已经被填满了，到了某个点上，意识已经足够充足，可以让我们所有人更容易触及它。我想这正是现在发生的事。

Panelist: More consciousness is not the same thing as God or Divinity. Nor that is... See there is a rhetoric of persuasion which goes through whether or not we are going to reconnect with where we began. That's difficult for people who are going out to get (?), let's say the (?) navy base. Not that they are radical pacifists doing all kind of things but if we are going to form a movement... I want groups that do that, to be more congenial to listening to this kind of language. And to be more sympathetic to it.

座谈嘉宾：更多的意识，跟神或神性不是一回事。也不是……你看，这里有一种劝说的修辞，它贯穿于我们是否要重新连接上我们开始的地方。这对那些外出获取（？）的人很难，比如说（？）海军基地。不是说他们是激进的和平主义者，什么都干，但如果我们真要发起一场运动……我希望做这件事的团体，能更愿意聆听这种语言。也能对它更有同感。

going to form a movement... I want groups that do that, to be more congenial to listening to this kind of language. And to be more sympathetic to it.

真要发起一场运动……我希望做这件事的团体，能更愿意聆听这种语言。也能对它更有同感。

But I really am concerned as long as I travel these twenty-seven hundred miles each way and spending only a bright evening with you, I am very much concerned that we not exclude people from the way we think, feel and act about genuinely dismantling militarism and somehow I find the language that you have been using uncongenial even to myself and I (?) That is this (?) involved in it and if that, madam vice president, I am going to give you my votes but I hope that you know, how we are going to get a hundred million others or thirty-five million... And I am saying, I think that we have that difficulty.

可我真的很担心，只要我每一趟都要跑这 2700 英里，只跟你共度一个明亮的夜晚，我就非常担心，我们在思考、感受和行动的方式上，不要把一些人排除在外——真正地拆解军国主义。而且不知怎的，我发现你一直在用的那套说法，连我自己都觉得不投机，还有我（？）这里面牵涉到的就是这个（？），如果是那样，副总统女士，我会把票投给你，但我希望你知道，我们要怎么再争取到一亿人，或者三千五百万人……而我说，我认为我们就有这个困难。

And in this place here, when you are thinking about the way you use your meditation and I think we have to meditate and mobilize, pray and protest, (?)

而在这个地方，当你在思考你运用冥想的方式时，我认为我们必须冥想并动员起来，祈祷并抗议，（？）

(Applause)

（掌声）

Somehow they have to go together in a way that doesn't seem (?) and I...

不知怎的，它们得走到一起，以一种看来不（？）的方式，而我……

Lady panelist: I think you are exactly right, in fact the whole reason to bring (?) a positive (?) into the political arena, is to make a synthesis of spirit and action.

女性小组成员：我认为你说得完全对，事实上，把（？）一种正向的（？）带进政治舞台的全部理由，就是要让灵性与行动融合在一起。

Audience: (?).

观众：（？）。

right, in fact the whole reason to bring (?) a positive (?) into the political arena, is to make a synthesis of spirit and action.

对，事实上，把（？）一种正向的（？）带进政治舞台的全部理由，就是要让灵性与行动融合在一起。

Audience: (?).

观众：（？）。

Lady Panelist: Gandhi seems to me the synthesis of this and he certainly with a religious...

女性小组成员：在我看来，甘地就是这种融合，而他确实带着一种宗教性的……

YB: No, Gandhi did a wonderful job. When the elders talk, children must learn the mannerism to shut up. And that is not, this is a panel discussion in which we panelists are there and you are the humble audience and we are going to do very neurotic things which you must have the patience to watch. And it is all intentional by the way, we are not fighting. That was the agreement done upstairs that we will attack each other without involving self respect and ego. So please let us do our job for your benefit.

YB：不，甘地做得非常了不起。长辈说话的时候，孩子必须学会闭上嘴的规矩。而这不是，这是一场小组讨论，我们这些小组成员坐在这里，而你们是谦卑的观众，我们要做一些非常神经质的事，你们必须有耐心看着。顺便说一句，这全是有意的，我们不是在打架。楼上已经说好了，我们会互相攻击，但不牵扯自尊和小我。所以请让我们为了你们的利益，做好我们的事。

(Applause)

（掌声）

done upstairs that we will attack each other without involving self respect and ego. So please let us do our job for your benefit.

楼上已经说好了，我们会互相攻击，但不牵扯自尊和小我。所以请让我们为了你们的利益，做好我们的事。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Lady panelist: I was just making the point so I think that I was in jail this summer in civil disobedience and it was an absolutely holy place to be. There was... first of all there was a absolute synthesis of politics and spirituality and the work shops that (?) sisters here they were (?) I mean (?) on Gandhi, Sufi dancing, yoga, Marx's analysis of the arms race and it seems to me, I take, I am very religious, the word God (?) when you start (?) institutional, it's religion, there have been more holy wars or unholy wars, I don't think that's the issue, I think Gandhi had a lot of answers, I think it's whether you are non-violent or not.

女嘉宾：我刚才只是在说明一点，所以我想，今年夏天我因为非暴力反抗进了监狱，而那是一个绝对神圣的地方。那里有……首先，那里有一种政治与灵性的绝对综合，还有那些工作坊，在座的姐妹们，她们在讲甘地、苏菲舞、瑜伽、马克思对军备竞赛的分析，而在我看来，我接受，我非常虔诚，「神」这个词，当你开始把它体制化，那就成了宗教，曾经有过更多神圣的战争或不神圣的战争，我不认为那是问题所在，我认为甘地有很多答案，我认为问题在于你是否非暴力。

more holy wars or unholy wars, I don't think that's the issue, I think Gandhi had a lot of answers, I think it's whether you are non-violent or not.

曾经有过更多神圣的战争或不神圣的战争，我不认为那是问题所在，我认为甘地有很多答案，我认为问题在于你是否非暴力。

And that non-violence in the sense of courage in the service of compassion, and that whether you believe in God or not is really not the issue, whether you are humanist or God believer, look at (?) majority, you invoke the name God, but I don't think they bring peace on earth. So there is some synthesis here and Gandhi had more answers than anyone that I have come across and he was the fusion of the political and the spiritual.

而那种非暴力，是在慈悲的服务中展现勇气，至于你信不信神，其实不是问题所在，不管你是人道主义者还是信神的人，看看大多数，你们 invoking 神的名字，但我不认为他们给地球带来和平。所以这里有某种综合，而甘地比我遇到过的任何人都给出更多答案，他是政治与灵性的融合。

Panelist: Well, I accept I mean, I would totally accept that statement. I happen to bring a lot of Gandhi with me on this particular trip and he knows when to use God as a (?) and he knows when to leave it out and when he is truth seeking and when he is engaged in political activity and non-violence he calls on people to show courage in the faith of danger, but it's truth seeking inside himself then I guess we (?) with this too long because there are other people who should get in on the act and they should become our oppressors as we are oppressing them.

嘉宾：好吧，我接受，我是说，我完全接受这个说法。这次特别的行程我恰好带了很多甘地的东西，他知道什么时候把神当作一个（？），他也知道什么时候把它放下，什么时候他在追寻真理，什么时候他在从事政治活动，而在他非暴力的时候，他号召人们在危险中展现信仰的勇气，但那是他内在的真理追寻，那么我猜我们（？）在这个话题上太久了，因为还有其他人应该参与进来，而他们应该成为我们的压迫者，就像我们正在压迫他们一样。

we (?) with this too long because there are other people who should get in on the act and they should become our oppressors as we are oppressing them.

我们（？）在这个话题上太久了，因为还有其他人应该参与进来，而他们应该成为我们的压迫者，就像我们正在压迫他们一样。

Monitor: Yes, this is actually the turning point right now. We are going to take the moment to shift to another mode of being and (?)

主持人：是的，这实际上正是现在的转折点。我们要花一点时间切换到另一种存在方式，（？）

has agreed to lead moments meditation one must take advantage of this to have a commercial break and tell you that this panel has been both audio taped and video taped as was the morning panel and in fact the number of the workshop of the day and those interested, especially in high speed copies of the audio tapes which are immediately available to see the audio people at the far end near the entrance and the registration desk and those of you who are interested in knowing or networking to have access to the video tapes of the panel should see the registration people and sign up and we will be in touch with each other. So now this moment.

同意带领片刻的冥想，我们必须抓住这个机会，插一段广告时间，告诉你们这个座谈小组已经录了音、录了像，上午的座谈也一样；事实上，这是今天工作坊的编号，有兴趣的人，尤其是想要高速复制录音带的人，可以立刻去找靠近入口尽头和登记台那边的音频工作人员；而你们中那些有兴趣了解或建立联系、想拿到座谈小组录像带的人，应该去找登记处的人报名，我们会彼此保持联系。那么，现在就是这一刻。

access to the video tapes of the panel should see the registration people and sign up and we will be in touch with each other. So now this moment.

想拿到座谈小组录像带的人，应该去找登记处的人报名，我们会彼此保持联系。那么，现在就是这一刻。

Lady panelist: Just like to make a moment, relax and visualize our (?) here and feel your own experience of love for each other and for the world as you are experiencing it in your heart now. And feel yourself as a being of light. Do allow the light that's in you to connect with the light that is in each person in this room. Now lift slightly off our planet and catch a glimpse of the whole United States Of America. Imagine right now, individuals just exactly like you and me feeling in their heart the experience of love of each other. Imagine how many of us there are right now in this country and experience us as light. Slowing (?) and link me. You see the whole nation (?) with light.

女士座谈嘉宾：只想花一点时间，放松，观想我们的（？）在这里，感受你自己对彼此、对世界的爱，就像你现在在心里体验到的这样。感受你自己是一个光的存有。让你内在的光，与这个房间里每个人内在的光相连。现在，轻轻离开我们的星球，瞥一眼整个美利坚合众国。想象此刻，一个个跟你我完全一样的人，在心里感受着对彼此的爱。想象这个国家里现在有多少个我们，把我们体验成光。放慢（？）并连接我。你看见整个国家（？）被光充满。

how many of us there are right now in this country and experience us as light. Slowing (?) and link me. You see the whole nation (?) with light.

这个国家里现在有多少个我们，把我们体验成光。放慢（？）并连接我。你看见整个国家（？）被光充满。

Now lift further and begin gently to orbit the planet and as we pass over this beautiful blue (?), seeing Europe, and each individual of light linking, see the middle east, individual by individual in each country linking and linking across country. Go to the soviet union, see individual Russian, experience their own feeling of love, linking, lights connecting all over Europe, experience it in china, in Australia, in New Zealand, in Asia. For one moment in time let us hold the image of every human being on earth who expresses love linking in a mass movement of the heart.

现在，再往上升，开始轻轻地环绕这个星球；当我们飞过这颗美丽的蓝色（？），看见欧洲，一个个光的个体在连接；看见中东，一个国家一个国家里的个体在连接，并跨越国界连接。去苏联，看见一个个俄罗斯人，体验他们自己对爱的感受，在连接，光在整个欧洲相连；在中国、在澳大利亚、在新西兰、在亚洲体验它。就在这一刻，让我们持守这个意象：地球上每一个表达爱的人都在连接，汇成一场心的集体运动。

in Asia. For one moment in time let us hold the image of every human being on earth who expresses love linking in a mass movement of the heart.

在亚洲。就在这一刻，让我们持守这个意象：地球上每一个表达爱的人都在连接，汇成一场心的集体运动。

And experience that connecting soul deeply that we begin to actually beat our hearts together in unison for a moment in time. The heartbeats enter into this earth. And a new feel is felt. An irresistible bond is forged. And the people of this earth take a stand together for the love of life. Here (?) in the background over the whole planet and experience us taking the stand together and hold that image. There are in us (?) us now. Crazy (?) man and that (?) can change the consciousness of the world.

去体验那种深沉的灵魂/真我连接，我们开始在同一时刻，心跳真正合而为一。心跳进入这片大地。一种全新的感受被感受到。一条不可抗拒的纽带被锻造出来。这片大地上的人们为爱生命而站在一起。在这里（？），在背景中，覆盖整个星球，去体验我们共同站立，并把那个画面留住。现在在我们里面（？）。疯狂（？）的人，而那个（？）能够改变世界的意识。

Come back down back here to California into this room. Hold that image as we open our eyes and continue to feel the links of light around this planet as a present reality. Gradually open your eyes and come back to the room. Thank you.

回到这里来，回到加州，回到这个房间。把那个画面留住，我们睁开眼睛，继续感受这个星球周围的光之连结，把它当作眼前的现实。慢慢睁开眼睛，回到房间。谢谢。

Panelist: It is our intention to close in approximately fifteen minutes, so some questions have been addressed to the panelists and I am going to share them around and we will go one by one as (?). So (?).

座谈嘉宾：我们的打算是大约 15 分钟后结束，所以有些问题已经提给座谈嘉宾了，我会把它们分发一下，我们按（？）一个一个来。所以（？）。

fifteen minutes, so some questions have been addressed to the panelists and I am going to share them around and we will go one by one as (?). So (?).

15 分钟，所以有些问题已经提给座谈嘉宾了，我会把它们分发一下，我们按（？）一个一个来。所以（？）。

Panelist: (?) here the first one that I have is asking me to repeat the (?) of (?) my love for you takes you out of this world and makes you forget the past and your heart is only the moment, then come to me. Innocence is our nationality, simplicity is our identity, it's given only to those who stay (?) homeland.

座谈嘉宾：（？）这里我拿到的第一个问题是让我重复（？）的（？）我对你的爱带你离开这个世界，让你忘记过去，你的心只在当下，那就来到我身边。纯真是我们的国籍，朴素是我们的身份，它只赐给那些留在（？）家园的人。

Second question from you, how do you see a role of man especially (?) and the peace movement. (?) man in this (?) Well, why don't you answer that question from the perspective of manner, I have the third one. How has your spiritual growth colored your conception of history and what historical evidence do you see to support the transformation of human consciousness. One quick comment on the question; for me history is not reality, God is reality. For me change is not reality, God is reality. And hence that's my perspective that question as to the comment on transformation of consciousness. There are two ways of looking at that, one way is the way Barbara looks at it and has discussed it (?)

你的第二个问题，你怎么看人的角色，尤其是（？）以及和平运动。（？）人在这（？）里。嗯，你为什么不从方式的角度来回答那个问题，我这里有第三个。你的灵性成长如何影响了你对历史的理解，你看到哪些历史证据支持人类意识的转变。就这个问题简单说一句；对我来说，历史不是现实，神才是现实。对我来说，变化不是现实，神才是现实。因此这就是我的视角，关于那个问题，关于对人类意识转变的评论。看这件事有两种方式，一种是 Barbara 看它的方式，她已经讨论过了（？）

the comment on transformation of consciousness. There are two ways of looking at that, one way is the way Barbara looks at it and has discussed it (?)

关于对人类意识转变的评论。看这件事有两种方式，一种是 Barbara 看它的方式，她已经讨论过了（？）

very effectively and inspired manner. Another way would be to say that absence of truth is not truth of absence. If you want to discuss it on the quantitative measure (?) you could do it that way too. And finally I wanted just clear one thing with respond since I have a question on here about (?) about history.

非常有效，而且充满灵感。换个说法就是，真理的缺席并不是缺席的真理。如果你想用量化的标准来讨论它（？），也可以那样做。最后，我只想回应一个问题，把一件事说清楚，因为我这里有一个关于（？）历史的问题。

A little boy shared with me four open secrets and I want to share them with all of us. He said to me, secret number one, open, I tell it to every one, God is weird. (?) that means everything is connected with everything as it goes.

一个小男孩跟我分享了四个公开的秘密，我想把它们分享给我们所有人。他对我说，第一个公开的秘密，公开的，我告诉每一个人，神是很奇怪的。（？）那意思是，万物都随着它的流转彼此相连。

He said second open secret, "Satan is weird. "

他说第二个公开的秘密，「撒旦是很奇怪的。」

I said, "What that means? "

我说，「那是什么意思？」

"If mind is weird and that means the minds can connect everything from everything. "

「如果心智是很奇怪的，那意思是心智能把万物和万物连在一起。」

I said, "Good. "

我说，「好。」

He said, third open secret, "The universe is a baby. "

他说，第三个公开的秘密，「宇宙是个婴儿。」

I said, "(?)"

我说，「（？）」

He said, "We love, we take care of it, never abandon it, love is (?) because it's a baby. "

他说，「我们爱它，我们照顾它，永远不抛弃它，爱是（？），因为它是个婴儿。」

I said, "Thank you. "

我说，「谢谢你。」

And that (?) fourth open secret. He said, "Enlightenment can be (?) any moment at any point, any place. "

然后（？）第四个公开的秘密。他说，「开悟可以在（？）任何时刻、任何一点、任何地方发生。」

it's a baby. "

它是个婴儿。

I said, "Thank you. "

我说，「谢谢你。」

And that (?) fourth open secret. He said, "Enlightenment can be (?) any moment at any point, any place. "

然后（？）第四个公开的秘密。他说，「开悟可以在（？）任何时刻、任何一点、任何地方发生。」

I said, "Thank you very much. "

我说，「非常感谢你。」

(Applause)

（掌声）

Barbara: One of these questions I got is, "Who would you like to be running with? "

Barbara：我收到的这些问题里有一个是，「你想和谁一起竞选？」

Well, I myself state briefly what I am running for instead of I am running with. I created a campaign for a positive future and what we are doing is developing a vehicle through which the various people programs, policies in multiple groups are working for positive change, can correlate and surface as a political force for the first time in American history. We are creating positive future centers around the country, we now have fifteen where core groups are forming to network and network in every region of this country and invite people to come together to identify what works. Our slogan is "What on earth works? "

好吧，我自己简要说说我要竞选什么，而不是我要和谁一起竞选。我发起了一场为正向未来而战的运动，我们在做的是打造一个载体，让各种各样的人、项目、政策在多个群体中为正向改变而努力，第一次在美国历史上能够互相关联，浮出水面，成为一股政治力量。我们正在全国各地创建正向未来中心，现在已经有十五个，核心小组正在成形，要在全国每一个地区建立网络、再建网络，邀请人们走到一起，找出什么行得通。我们的口号是「到底什么行得通？」

network and network in every region of this country and invite people to come together to identify what works. Our slogan is "What on earth works? "

要在全国每一个地区建立网络、再建网络，邀请人们走到一起，找出什么行得通。我们的口号是「到底什么行得通？」

And it's based on the initiatives already going on, which if amplified would provide a positive alternative for the future and proposing that we create an office of the future in (?) office of the vice-presidency. It's really an expansion of that world to include a continuing focus on innovation, creativity, leading edge, invincible solutions and reconciliation. Now the one I would like to run with is the one (?) like all that. And they really remain to be seen, my sense is that most political leaders would like to have more other sense, other constituency for long (?) positive goals and (?)solutions and innovations. Very much (?) Patricia. What has been lacking is the constituency.

它是基于已经在进行的倡议，这些倡议如果被放大，就会为未来提供一个正向的替代方案，并提出我们在副总统办公室里设立一个未来事务办公室。它其实是把那个世界扩展出去，把对创新、创造力、前沿、不可战胜的解决方案与和解的持续关注也纳入进来。现在我想全力推进的那一个，就像所有这些一样。它们真的还有待观察，我的感觉是，大多数政治领袖都希望有更多的……其他的意识，其他的支持群体，来支持长远（？）的正向目标和（？）解决方案与创新。非常（？）Patricia。一直缺的是支持群体。

Our task in the next ten months is to surface as a the most vital constituency in the country and then we will have all political leaders working more along our directions. However far I get in my efforts to become vice-president if you can manifest this constituency we can change history in nineteen eighty four, because it's a time of quantum change.

我们接下来十个月的任务，就是浮出水面，成为这个国家最有生命力的支持群体，然后所有的政治领袖就会更多地沿着我们的方向走。不管我在成为副总统的努力上走到多远，如果你能显化出这个支持群体，我们就能在1984年改变历史，因为这是一个量子式改变的时代。

to become vice-president if you can manifest this constituency we can change history in nineteen eighty four, because it's a time of quantum change.

不管我在成为副总统的努力上走到多远，如果你能显化出这个支持群体，我们就能在1984年改变历史，因为这是一个量子式改变的时代。

Secondly, I was asked how does spiritualism address the needs of the people suffering today. That's an excellent question and my sense is that every problem today is long range, complex and also immediate. There has to be a multiple approach, there has to be immediate emergency help where it's needed. But if we don't do now what we give is a positive future in five to ten years the suffering will never be over. So we need a both end approach. We need immediate measures to meet immediate needs such as hunger.

其次，有人问我，灵性如何回应今天受苦之人的需要。这是个极好的问题，我的感觉是，今天每一个问题都是长远的、复杂的，同时也是眼前的。必须有多重进路，必须在需要的地方有立即的紧急救助。但如果我们现在不做那些能在5到10年内带来正向未来的事，苦难就永远不会结束。所以我们需要两头并进的进路。我们需要立即的措施来满足立即的需要，比如饥饿。

But if we can also act now so there would be no hunger in twenty years from now and futurism is that part of our action which gives us an opportunity to act now to prevent the suffering in the future. It is preventative social action.

但如果我们也能现在就行动，让20年后不再有饥饿，那么未来主义就是我们行动中的那一部分，它给我们机会现在行动，以防止未来的苦难。它是预防性的社会行动。

And finally I guess everyone would have asked this, from your particular perspective with the positive future how do you see the role of men or emerging role of men in this peace movement or forth for the future. I see that the evolution of woman is the emancipation of man.

最后，我猜每个人都会问这个，从你特定的视角看，带着正向的未来，你如何看待男人在这场和平运动中的角色，或正在浮现的角色，或为未来而前行。我看到，女人的进化就是男人的解放。

the role of men or emerging role of men in this peace movement or forth for the future. I see that the evolution of woman is the emancipation of man.

男人在这场和平运动中的角色，或正在浮现的角色，或为未来而前行。我看到，女人的进化就是男人的解放。

And I believe that as women move from their role of dependency and maximum reproduction and have the energy to give all that creativity that has gone into reproducing the species into the co-design, co-creation and development of the community in the world, that is going to free men from their role of having to care for and serve women as they have had to do, when we were having ten and twelve babies and they were working eighteen hours a day to survive. So as we free ourselves up our creative role in the world men will be liberated and have an opportunity to develop their own sensitivity into (?) and feel inside. And I will see eventually women becoming (?)

我相信，当女性从依附的角色和最大限度生育的角色中走出来，有能量把曾经投入繁衍物种的全部创造力，用于共同设计、共同创造和发展这个世界上的社群，这就会把男性从不得不照顾和服务女性的角色中解放出来，就像过去那样，那时我们要生十个、十二个孩子，他们一天工作十八个小时才能活下来。所以，当我们把自己在世界上的创造性角色解放出来，男性也会获得自由，有机会发展他们自己的敏感，去感受内在。我最终会看到女性变得……

masculine and feminine balance, men doing the same, moving towards co-creative partnership for the transformation of the world.

男性与女性的平衡，男性也一样，走向共同创造的伙伴关系，为了世界的转化。

(Applause)

（掌声）

(?)

（？）

masculine and feminine balance, men doing the same, moving towards co-creative partnership for the transformation of the world.

男性与女性的平衡，男性也一样，走向共同创造的伙伴关系，为了世界的转化。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Panelist: Two brief questions. One (?) humanness rather than human is, I take this a kind of political rhetoric question and I would agree that if we could change the words national security, the human security, and if human (?) doing that, I would be in favor of promoting that. And I think it's crucial that we begin to take in our own hands the notion of our own security and whether the term is human security or people security, we stop using the term national security I think.

小组成员：两个简短的问题。第一，（？）人性而不是人类，我把这当作一个政治修辞的问题，我同意，如果我们能把国家安全这个词改成人的安全，如果人类（？）这样做，我会赞成推动它。而且我认为，关键在于我们开始把自身安全的概念拿在自己手里，不管这个词是人的安全还是人民的安全，我认为我们要停止使用国家安全这个词。

(Applause)

（掌声）

notion of our own security and whether the term is human security or people security, we stop using the term national security I think.

自身安全的概念，不管这个词是人的安全还是人民的安全，我认为我们要停止使用国家安全这个词。

(Applause)

（掌声）

How do you calculate the chances of a nuclear war badly? I think there is a highlight when we heard that there will be a nuclear blast sometime in the next twenty years by a highlight (?) I mean one out of ten, some place in the world. If you ask me (?) my friends (?) I think they would disagree with me but I am giving you now, (?) if you ask me, do I think that there is going to be (?) nuclear holocaust? My answer to that question is that the likelihood of that occurring is somewhere between, this is subject to probability, okay. It's somewhere between one out of five thousand to one out of ten thousand. Now that sounds like, I don't think it's a very likely possibility.

你怎么估算一场严重核战争的概率？我认为有一个重点，当我们听说未来二十年里某个地方会发生一次核爆炸，由某个重点（？）我的意思是十分之一。如果你问我（？）我的朋友们（？）我想他们会不同意我，但我现在告诉你，（？）如果你问我，我是否认为会有（？）核浩劫？我对这个问题的回答是，它发生的可能性大约在——这取决于概率，好吧。它大约在五千分之一到万分之一之间。现在这听起来像，我不认为这是很可能的事。

okay. It's somewhere between one out of five thousand to one out of ten thousand. Now that sounds like, I don't think it's a very likely possibility.

好吧。它大约在五千分之一到万分之一之间。现在这听起来像，我不认为这是很可能的事。

Well, the fact is I don't believe that the exchange, that there will be a spasm exchange of weapons between the mega super powers and I don't see it beginning anywhere else in the world they would escalate into that scenario that's believable. Having said that, a five thousand to one or ten thousand to one chance give them the (?) with (?) due to the human race I think everybody should work to prevent this. It's the calculated risk we have to take into account. Yes, the likelihood of occurring isn't very high but damn it all, if it does occur it will be so enormously harmful to the species and to the biosphere, I think we should be putting all of our efforts into it.

其实，事实是我不相信那种交换，我不相信超级大国之间会爆发武器交换，我也看不出世界上还有哪个地方会先开始，然后升级到那种可信的场面。话虽如此，五千分之一或一万分之一的可能性，因为人类（？）而（？），我认为每个人都应该努力去防止它。这是我们必须考虑到的、经过计算的风险。是的，它发生的可能性并不很高，但该死的，如果它真的发生，对人类和生物圈的伤害会大到无法想象，我认为我们应该把全部努力都投进去。

(?): There is a one general question that I wanted to (?) and this will be the last. Karl Marx always asked who, what powerful class or group will carry out your good idea. If there is no such base of support how will it happen.

（？）：我想提一个一般性的问题，这是最后一个。Karl Marx 总是问，哪个强大的阶级或群体会去实现你的好主意。如果没有这样的支持基础，它要怎么发生。

Panelist: (----).

专题讨论嘉宾：（----）。

asked who, what powerful class or group will carry out your good idea. If there is no such base of support how will it happen.

总是问，哪个强大的阶级或群体会去实现你的好主意。如果没有这样的支持基础，它要怎么发生。

Panelist: (----).

专题讨论嘉宾：（----）。

Patricia: I am still mulling away with (?) I hope you are right about one in five thousand. My guts tell me that (?) radical change is about one in two. When I was born there was not a single nuclear weapon on the face of this earth and I am not that ancient. There are fifty thousand right now, by the year two thousand and eight there will be seventy five countries with the capacity to build a bomb. We are now building first strike weapons that make nuclear war much more likely because it puts the (?) decide the goal first. And it's just a gut feeling that my son (?) my age and thus we get very active and get acted soon. So while I hope (?) is right desperately, I find (?)

Patricia：我还在反复琢磨（？），我希望你说的五千分之一是对的。我的直觉告诉我，（？）根本性的改变大约是二分之一。我出生的时候，这地球上还没有一件核武器，而我也没那么老。现在有五万件，到 2008 年，会有七十五个国家有能力造出炸弹。我们现在正在制造先发制人的武器，这让核战争更可能发生，因为它把（？）先决定目标这件事摆在了前面。这只是我的直觉——我的儿子（？）我这个年纪，于是我们变得非常积极，很快就会行动。所以，尽管我拼命希望（？）是对的，我还是觉得（？）

to close this panel on that note because I think it gives us full sense of optimism and what I think the optimism resides in us, looking at in the (?) and putting the (?) of our being into a (?) what I think is much greater risk of danger. And it's (?) I would like to close on.

用这个来结束这场专题讨论，因为我认为它给了我们完整的乐观感，而我认为这种乐观就住在我们里面，看着（？），把我们存在的（？）投入（？）我认为那才是大得多的危险。而（？）就是我想用来结束的。

(Applause)

（掌声）

in the (?) and putting the (?) of our being into a (?) what I think is much greater risk of danger. And it's (?) I would like to close on.

看着（？），把我们存在的（？）投入（？）我认为那才是大得多的危险。而（？）就是我想用来结束的。

(Applause)

（掌声）

YB: Fourteen years ago I came to United States. There is hardly any corner I have not heard of. I have talked to millions of people and millions of people in one way or the other talk to me. I do not feel that ideally and sensitively or wisely anybody wants the atomic war. I think very few people are sitting here we are very activist that we don't want to stop the nuke. I think those who are making the nuke are also willing to stop it but the very fact the insanity they are unable to stop it gives me the idea that it is going to be, what it is going to be. And it is on its way.

Yogi Bhajan：14 年前我来到美国。几乎没有哪个角落是我没听说过的。我和数百万人谈过话，也有数百万人以各种方式和我说话。我不觉得有谁在理想上、在敏感上、在明智上真的想要原子战争。我想坐在这里的人里，极少有人像我们这样积极，不想阻止核武。我想那些造核武的人其实也愿意停下来，可正因为这种疯狂，他们停不下来——这让我觉得，该来的总会来。而且它已经在路上了。

And the very fact that today this hall is not even full, in spite of the fact people have worked very hard and the only thing I was given was that there were two, three conferences on this issue anyway. This is basically honesty. It's not an issue. It's a matter of my child melting right before me like an ice cream cone. It is a idea that this earth will not be (?)

而今天这个大厅连坐都没坐满——尽管人们已经非常努力，而我得到的信息只是，关于这个问题反正已经开过两三场会议了。这本质上就是诚实。这不是一个议题。这是我的孩子在我眼前像一支冰淇淋蛋筒一样融化。这是一个念头：这个地球不会（？）

honesty. It's not an issue. It's a matter of my child melting right before me like an ice cream cone. It is a idea that this earth will not be (?)

诚实。这不是一个议题。这是我的孩子在我眼前像一支冰淇淋蛋筒一样融化。这是一个念头：这个地球不会（？）

The very fact that we are not sensitive to the fact, though we know, the panelists know, you all know, the man who is going to clean this street tomorrow, he knows and the president Reagan knows. Nancy definitely knows.

事实就是，我们对这个事实并不敏感——尽管我们知道，座谈小组的人知道，你们都知道，明天要来扫这条街的人知道，里根总统知道。南希肯定知道。

(Students' laughter...)

（学生们笑声……）

That this nuclear war, that we can destroy Russia, soviet union about twenty-eight times over and they can destroy us fourteen times over, totally means that there is not going to be any existence. But we are not stopping. The problem which I want to address to you is we are not stopping. Then I believe when husband and wife do not stop argument there is a possibility of the blow out of the blues and whatever you know, it goes on to something... It may end up having a dinner later. But I definitely know something happens.

这场核战争——我们能把俄罗斯、苏联摧毁大约 28 次，他们能把我们摧毁 14 次——完全意味着不会再有任何存在。可我们不停下来。我想跟你们谈的问题是：我们不停下来。那么我相信，当丈夫和妻子不停止争吵时，就有可能突然爆发，然后不管你知道什么，它就一直往下走……也许最后还能一起吃顿晚饭。但我确实知道，总有什么事会发生。

blow out of the blues and whatever you know, it goes on to something... It may end up having a dinner later. But I definitely know something happens.

突然爆发，然后不管你知道什么，它就一直往下走……也许最后还能一起吃顿晚饭。但我确实知道，总有什么事会发生。

I mean there maybe only left Siberia and we may have northern territories of Canada left, I am not worried about that and we may become very friendly but fact is, this is a honest fact. If I am wrong correct me. We are not stopping. And I don't see any stop. I am not negative, I am not positive, my honesty tells me that if something does not stop, it will work. And we are not stopping.

我是说，也许只剩西伯利亚，也许我们还留着加拿大北部地区，我不担心那个，我们也许还会变得非常友好，但事实是，这是诚实的事实。如果我错了，请纠正我。我们不停下来。我也看不到任何停止。我不消极，也不积极，我的诚实告诉我：如果某件事不停下来，它就会发生作用。而我们不停下来。

The only thing which can stop is if thousand people everyday in Russia, in Moscow, in Red Square and thousand people in Washington go on a fast unto death and if we can add thousands, I am talking of the Gandhian way, and we add thousand people everyday, strong enough who can afford not to eat. And when this way we will give ahuti, ahuti is sacrificial thing to the fire we give. We give this ahuti, Gandhian way, non-violent life to the life, I think Gandhian way can work and we can protect. Because Gandhi learnt this non-violence from the Amritsar sakha. You have seen that story.

唯一能阻止它的办法，就是每天有成千上万的人在俄罗斯、在莫斯科、在红场，又有成千上万的人在华盛顿绝食至死，如果我们还能加上几千人——我说的是甘地的方式——每天加进去几千个足够强壮、不吃也撑得住的人。用这种方式，我们就能献上 ahuti，ahuti 就是献给火祭的供品。我们献上这份 ahuti，用甘地的方式，用非暴力的生活献给生命，我认为甘地的方式行得通，我们能保护住。因为甘地正是从阿姆利则的惨案里学到了这种非暴力。那个故事你们都看过。

the life, I think Gandhian way can work and we can protect. Because Gandhi learnt this non-violence from the Amritsar sakha. You have seen that story.

生命，我认为甘地的方式行得通，我们能保护住。因为甘地正是从阿姆利则的惨案里学到了这种非暴力。那个故事你们都看过。

Jallianwala Bagh, the first thing which we had a British, there was a religious garden called Guru ka bagh, from which for the Golden Temple wood used to come and somehow craziness prevailed like madness, the British said, "You have no right to get the wood. "

贾利安瓦拉巴格，我们跟英国人头一回交手的地方，有一座宗教园林，叫「古茹之园」，金庙用的木材就从那里来，不知怎么的，疯狂占了上风，英国人开口就说：「你们没权拿木材。」

The Sikhs said, "We have the right to get the wood. "

锡克人说：「我们有权拿木材。」

And they said, "Well, come and get it. "

他们说：「好啊，来拿吧。」

So band of five went to get the wood and they started beating and lathi charging and shooting and running them under the horses till it became a whole institution of non-violent movement and finally the British empire first time allowed to get the wood from that garden. Mahatma Gandhi from that day onwards practiced, Dandi march was that, Jallianwala Bagh in Amritsar was that, and this is... people have to rise today, you should have reasoned yesterday to stop this madness both sides are saying we don't want to build nuke, we don't want to war nuke. Just now I learned the president of the USSR saying, 'I want to give an open invitation, let us do this, let us stop this.

于是一队五个人去取木材，他们就开始殴打、挥警棍冲锋、开枪，还把人生生踩到马底下，直到这件事变成了一整套非暴力运动，最后大英帝国头一回允许从那座园林里取木材。圣雄甘地从那天起就开始实践，盐路行军是那样，阿姆利则的贾利安瓦拉巴格是那样，这就是……今天人们必须站起来，你们昨天就该讲理，去阻止这种疯狂——双方都说我们不想造核弹，我们不想打核战。我刚听说苏联总统说：「我想公开邀请，让我们这么做，让我们停下来。

we don't want to war nuke. Just now I learned the president of the USSR saying, 'I want to give an open invitation, let us do this, let us stop this.

我们不想打核战。我刚听说苏联总统说：「我想公开邀请，让我们这么做，让我们停下来。

President Reagan,' I think they both are lying. You agree with me? I think they are telling us we want to stop it, they are telling (?) make such a nuke which I have not to press the button, it flies automatically.

里根总统，」我认为他们俩都在撒谎。你们同意我吗？我认为他们在跟我们说我们想停下，他们说的是（？）造出那种我根本不用按按钮、它自己就飞出去的核弹。

Things are not right, you know it, I know it, we know it. I don't know how we are sleeping. For the lovers not to sleep is the law and I am going very disheartened today that we all have... I think if this meeting could have been there, whole San Francisco would have come and we would have not gone today to any bar, any restaurant, any place, we would have filled all this area up to this golden gate. I am very grassroot practical person. I think we would have shaken something.

事情不对劲，你知道，我知道，我们都知道。我不知道我们怎么能睡得着。对相爱的人来说，不睡是法则，今天我特别心痛，我们所有人都……我想，如果这场聚会早就在这里，整个旧金山都会来，我们今天就不会去任何酒吧、任何餐馆、任何地方，我们会把这整片区域一直填到金门。我是个非常脚踏实地、从底层做起的人。我想我们本会撼动一些东西。

any place, we would have filled all this area up to this golden gate. I am very grassroot practical person. I think we would have shaken something.

任何地方，我们会把这整片区域一直填到金门。我是个非常脚踏实地、从底层做起的人。我想我们本会撼动一些东西。

Lady panelist: That's what I think we should do in nineteen eighty four. I am really interested in what kinds of act should mobilize millions of people to take this stand together. (?) the same feeling you do that we have to take the stand together that's so powerful that it will change and we have to do it this year. I mean there is no reason to wait.

女座谈嘉宾：这正是我认为我们1984年该做的事。我真的很有兴趣知道，什么样的行动才能动员千百万人一起站上这个立场。（？）和你一样的感觉，我们必须一起站上这个立场，它强大到会带来改变，而我们必须今年就做。我是说，没有理由再等。

YB: Professor is right that we are bifurcated, we have to have different language, we have to speak differently, we have to learn change our different (?), we have to stop this thing holier and thou business and we have to do lot of things to reach a common man to just let him know. I am going to propose... Just now I was telling the business wise. Let us make ice cream and on the cone we should make ice cream not that scoop, but make that thing which can go in ice cream and shape it like a innocent baby and put it on the cone and serve to people. And on the cone it should be written nuke will melt us like this ice cream. Something funny.

YB：教授说得对，我们被分成了两半，我们必须有不一样的语言，我们必须说得不一样，我们必须学会改变我们不同的（？），我们必须停止这种「我更神圣、你算什么」的把戏，我们必须做很多事，去触达一个普通人，就让他知道。我打算提议……刚才我从生意角度说了。让我们做冰淇淋，在蛋筒上，我们不该只放一勺冰淇淋，而该做出那种能放进冰淇淋、塑成一个天真婴儿形状的东西，放到蛋筒上，端给人们。蛋筒上该写着：核弹会像这冰淇淋一样把我们融化。来点好玩的。

innocent baby and put it on the cone and serve to people. And on the cone it should be written nuke will melt us like this ice cream. Something funny.

天真的婴儿，放到蛋筒上，端给人们。蛋筒上该写着：核弹会像这冰淇淋一样把我们融化。来点好玩的。

Monitor: I am going to propose that we take a stand now and stand in silence for a moment, (?) hold hands. I hope this can be a moment of the dedication to all of us. There is couple of announcements. I just want to remind you again.

主持人：我提议我们现在就站稳立场，静默地站一会儿，（？）手拉手。我希望这能成为我们所有人奉献的一刻。有几项通知。我只想再提醒你们一次。