原声录音
中英对照全文
... Interviewer: I did promise yoga, I talk about yoga and I have with me this morning the master of the 3HO foundation for Kundalini yoga and who is also a master of white Tantric yoga and he is 'Yogi Bhajan. ' Good morning and welcome to dateline (?).
... 采访者：我确实答应过要讲瑜伽，我要谈瑜伽，今天早上我请来了这位 3HO 基金会昆达里尼瑜伽的大师，他也是白谭崔瑜伽的大师，他就是 Yogi Bhajan。早上好，欢迎来到 dateline（？）。
YB: Thank you.
YB：谢谢。
Interviewer: Now would you tell us a little bit about both types of yoga because I don't know very much about it and it would be nice...
采访者：那你能不能给我们稍微讲讲这两种瑜伽，因为我对它了解不多，讲讲会很好……
YB: Well, to cut it short in a simple way, there are twenty-two types of yoga on which they are about eight very well known in different aspects of life. Kundalini Yoga is time wise very easy. It takes short time, because it's a science for an householder. What they say is that we have lotuses, they call Chakra. Like the base of the person, the sexual area, the navel point, the heart center, the throat, the power to speak, the Ajna, the third eye, and shashra, and plus your protection shield called 'Aura. '
YB：嗯，简单地说，瑜伽有 22 种，其中大约有 8 种在人生的不同面向里非常出名。昆达里尼瑜伽从时间上来说非常容易。它花的时间短，因为它是给居家者的一门科学。他们说的是，我们有莲花，他们叫脉轮。比如人的底部、性区域、丹田、心轮、喉轮、说话的力量、眉心轮、第三眼，还有顶轮，再加上你的保护盾，叫做「能量圈」。
navel point, the heart center, the throat, the power to speak, the Ajna, the third eye, and shashra, and plus your protection shield called 'Aura. '
丹田、心轮、喉轮、说话的力量、眉心轮、第三眼，还有顶轮，再加上你的保护盾，叫做「能量圈」。
The science says if these are out of balance, one area is overactive than other, doesn't matter what a person is up to, he feels that unhappiness in him. So wherever you can balance them and that is what you are all about and that means you can see perfect, you can see balance your life and your surrounding and your environment and your unknown and your known, so your past, present, future is ensured. You know what you are doing.
这门科学说，如果这些失衡了，某一个区域比另一个更活跃，那么不管这个人在追求什么，他都会觉得自己内在不快乐。所以只要你能把它们平衡好，那就是你要做的全部，那意味着你能看得完美，你能平衡你的生活、你的周遭、你的环境、你的未知和你的已知，这样你的过去、现在、未来就有了保障。你知道自己在做什么。
Interviewer: So this is a deep philosophy that one follows and studies over great many year.
采访者：所以这是一门很深的哲学，一个人要跟着它、研究很多很多年。
YB: No, if one practices and knows it... just like having a car, how to do the service, at after what miles, and how to keep it in a good shape to get the best out of you.
YB：不是，只要一个人练习它、懂它……就像有一辆车，怎么做保养，跑多少英里之后做，怎么让它保持好状态，好从你身上得到最好的表现。
Kundalini Yoga is how to get best out of you all the time. Tantric yoga, simple. It's a lever, diagonal force. You are out of shape for one reason or the other. Accident has happed. Something unusual stuff you know. You can't take it. Your nervous system has to pay for it. Fix it, that's it.
昆达里尼瑜伽就是怎么时时刻刻从你身上得到最好的表现。谭崔瑜伽，简单。它是一根杠杆，一股对角的力量。你因为这样或那样的原因失了形。事故发生了。一些不寻常的事，你知道的。你承受不了。你的神经系统得为此付出代价。把它修好，就这样。
Interviewer: How do you fix it?
采访者：你怎么修好它？
Something unusual stuff you know. You can't take it. Your nervous system has to pay for it. Fix it, that's it.
一些不寻常的事，你知道的。你承受不了。你的神经系统得为此付出代价。把它修好，就这样。
Interviewer: How do you fix it?
采访者：你怎么修好它？
YB: Well, it is done right there, it is not something you have to wait for it. These days we call, these courses, life force courses, we come 9 o'clock, we sit down and 5 o'clock we are off. And it's done. It's acknowledgely done. It's not I am saying it for it. It's acknowledgedly done. And people participate in it, they go through it, and that's it. It's done. It's on the spot. There is no repetition, there is no homework for it, there is nothing to follow, nothing to believe to, nothing to adhere to.
Yogi Bhajan：嗯，它当场就完成了，不是你得等着它发生的东西。现在我们把这些课程叫生命力课程，我们 9 点来，坐下，5 点就结束。它就完成了。它是已经被确认完成的。不是我在替它这么说。它是被确认完成的。人们参与进来，经历它，就这样。它完成了。它是当场的。没有重复，没有课后作业，没有什么要遵循的，没有什么要信仰的，没有什么要依附的。
Interviewer: This is Tantric yoga you are talking about?
采访者：你说的是谭崔瑜伽吗？
YB: Yeah, you come 9 o'clock sharp, sit down, 5 o'clock get out, it's all done.
Yogi Bhajan：对，你 9 点整来，坐下，5 点出去，全都完成了。
Interviewer: But what sorts of things do you actually do?
采访者：但你们实际上做些什么呢？
about?
关于什么？
YB: Yeah, you come 9 o'clock sharp, sit down, 5 o'clock get out, it's all done.
Yogi Bhajan：对，你 9 点整来，坐下，5 点出去，全都完成了。
Interviewer: But what sorts of things do you actually do?
采访者：但你们实际上做些什么呢？
YB: We balance certain things, we balance parasympathetic, sympathetic energy system, we balance nervous system in coordination with the western hemisphere and eastern hemisphere. We understand the business projectivity where you are very much exhaustingly, curiously, fanatically depressed, (?) I will win or not? (?). Then there is the third center, we adjust that, you will achieve what you will achieve but gracefully, with a smile, just nice.
Yogi Bhajan：我们平衡某些东西，我们平衡副交感、交感的能量系统，我们让神经系统与西半球和东半球协调一致。我们明白那种事务性的投射，你极度地、奇怪地、狂热地沮丧，（？）我会不会赢？（？）。然后是第三个中心，我们调整它，你会达成你会达成的，但是带着优雅，带着微笑，就那么好。
Interviewer: So it's achieving a balance in one's life between one's emotional states.
采访者：所以这是在人的一生中，在人的各种情绪状态之间达成一种平衡。
YB: Happiness is your birthright. And nothing is more precious than happiness. And it's just like driving a good Rolls-Royce with a beautiful speed and with proper brakes, with proper gas, and sitting majestically, you know.
Yogi Bhajan：幸福是你与生俱来的权利。没有什么比幸福更珍贵。它就像开着一辆好劳斯莱斯，以漂亮的速度，配上合适的刹车，合适的油门，庄严地坐在里面，你知道的。
Interviewer: But we can't get our bodies into this or bodies and minds all together in a whole...
采访者：但我们没法把身体带入这个，或者身体和心智全都在一个整体里……
proper gas, and sitting majestically, you know.
合适的油门，庄严地坐在里面，你知道的。
Interviewer: But we can't get our bodies into this or bodies and minds all together in a whole...
采访者：但我们没法把身体带入这个，或者身体和心智全都在一个整体里……
YB: Yeah, you have to understand your entire strength is not going to come from outside. It is in your soul, it is in your pranic energy. You breathe. And whether you know or not you should breathe fifteen breath a minute. You can't afford to go more than that. If you are more in breathing than fifteen breath a minute you are consuming your energy at a very short deal, I mean at cheap rate. It's a X amount of energy. And if you can breathe ten breath a minute, you can handle, doesn't matter what you want to handle.
Yogi Bhajan：对，你必须明白，你全部的力量不会从外面来。它在你的灵魂里，它在你的普拉纳能量里。你呼吸。不管你知道不知道，你都该每分钟呼吸 15 次。你承担不起超过这个。如果你每分钟呼吸超过 15 次，你就是在以很短的代价消耗你的能量，我的意思是廉价地消耗。能量就是那么多。如果你能每分钟呼吸 10 次，你就能应付，不管你想应付什么。
If you can reduce your strength of breathing to consolidated breath we call it, or we call it conscious breathing, one breath a minute you can stand pressure of abnormal Infinity and still be just as normal as you can.
如果你能把呼吸的力度降到我们所说的整合呼吸，或者叫有意识的呼吸，每分钟一次呼吸，你就能承受异常无限的压力，而且还能保持像平常一样的正常。
Interviewer: How?
interviewer：怎么做？
it conscious breathing, one breath a minute you can stand pressure of abnormal Infinity and still be just as normal as you can.
它就是有意识的呼吸，每分钟一次呼吸，你就能承受异常无限的压力，仍然还能像平常一样正常。
Interviewer: How?
interviewer：怎么做？
YB: Calm, quiet, graceful, effective, projective. There are two things which take you out of balance. One is love emotional and feeling commotional, phobia-fear and insecurity. These are that side. The other side, your intelligence, your consciousness, your personality and your faith or your relationship with your Infinity or life what you want to call it or God, whatever you want to call it about. So when these things on that side and that side are working, they are on your control. That's your unknown (?) You have to go through this jungle unscratched, without bias, without prejudice, relaxed and they are controlled by left and right brain. Left hemisphere and right hemisphere.
YB：平静、安静、优雅、有效、有投射。有两样东西会让你失去平衡。一个是爱，情绪化和感受的动荡、恐惧症——恐惧和不安。这些是那一边。另一边，你的智力、你的意识、你的人格，以及你的信仰，或者你与你的无限的关系，或者生命，你想怎么称呼它，或者神，你想怎么称呼它。所以当这一边和那一边的这些东西在运作时，它们就在你的掌控之中。那是你的未知（？）你必须穿过这片丛林而不被划伤，没有偏向，没有偏见，放松，而它们由左脑和右脑控制。左半球和右半球。
Your initial strength is your left brain. Your projective achievement is your right brain. They substitute each other, but they must shift within two and half hours and that you can do it with your nostril breathing, if you know what Pranayam is and what kind of breathing you have to do.
你最初的力量是你的左脑。你有投射性的成就是你的右脑。它们彼此替代，但它们必须在两个半小时内转换，而你可以通过鼻腔呼吸做到这一点，如果你知道什么是呼吸控制法，以及你必须做哪种呼吸。
Interviewer: Pranayam being one of the disciplines?
interviewer：呼吸控制法是其中一项 discipline？
your nostril breathing, if you know what Pranayam is and what kind of breathing you have to do.
如果你知道什么是呼吸控制法，以及你必须做哪种呼吸，就用鼻腔呼吸。
Interviewer: Pranayam being one of the disciplines?
interviewer：呼吸控制法是其中一项纪律吗？
YB: It's one the discipline in which you master your breath in relationship to your body, because it's automatic. It happens when you like it or not, but when you are conscious about it, then you are sure about it.
YB：它是其中一项纪律，在其中你掌握你的呼吸与身体的关系，因为它是自动的。不管你喜不喜欢，它都会发生；但当你对它有了觉知，你就会对它确定。
Interviewer: Yogiji, may we now move on a little to the philosophy of the Caribbean people. You were saying that in Trinidad we will have an island psychology almost, we have shores, so we are (?) how do you see this affecting the general psyche of the people.
interviewer：Yogiji，我们现在可以稍微转到加勒比人民的哲学吗？你刚才说，在特立尼达，我们几乎会有一种岛屿心理，我们有海岸，所以我们是（？）你如何看待这影响人们的一般心识。
YB: The general psyche in situation like a land which is an island, which you can see all the corners by just hiring a ordinary helicopter, you see the limits. Anywhere a person sees the depth and limit, it creates a additional phobia than anywhere else. So the automatic reaction of subconscious will be for the island people to go out.
YB：在像一片可以被称为岛屿的土地这样的情况下，你只要雇一架普通直升机就能看到所有角落，你看到界限。任何地方，当一个人看到深度和界限，它就会制造出比其他地方更多的恐惧。所以潜意识的自动反应会是岛民向外走。
Interviewer: To travel outward.?
interviewer：向外旅行？
phobia than anywhere else. So the automatic reaction of subconscious will be for the island people to go out.
phobia than anywhere else. So the automatic reaction of subconscious will be for the island people to go out.
Interviewer: To travel outward.?
Interviewer: To travel outward.?
YB: Out, and second will be, who is coming in? Protection. It makes like a global pit, it rotates in that (?). So basically, in that situation if the economic pressures are more, legal situations are more to adhere to, controls are more in simple words, people will become addicted to alcohol. In United States I am running a program, it's called 'Drugless drug rehabilitation program,' we don't use any drugs and we clean people out.
YB: Out, and second will be, who is coming in? Protection. It makes like a global pit, it rotates in that (?). So basically, in that situation if the economic pressures are more, legal situations are more to adhere to, controls are more in simple words, people will become addicted to alcohol. In United States I am running a program, it's called 'Drugless drug rehabilitation program,' we don't use any drugs and we clean people out.
Interviewer: But do they stay cleaned out, (?) this is quite a problem...
Interviewer: But do they stay cleaned out, (?) this is quite a problem...
YB: It is a such a beautiful thing you have said, our net result is above sixty percent normal. Normal. And redirection is successful, forty percent. So I mean it's one the best.
YB: It is a such a beautiful thing you have said, our net result is above sixty percent normal. Normal. And redirection is successful, forty percent. So I mean it's one the best.
Interviewer: It sounds much more successful...
Interviewer: It sounds much more successful...
percent normal. Normal. And redirection is successful, forty percent. So I mean it's one the best.
percent normal. Normal. And redirection is successful, forty percent. So I mean it's one the best.
Interviewer: It sounds much more successful...
Interviewer: It sounds much more successful...
YB: And I do not devalue people who drink. People who drink, people who use drugs, out of necessity. It's a psychological need, it is the emptiness in them and if that can be treated right, they can get out of it. Surprisingly, in the drug rehabilitation the most vital point where everybody fails is called 'Cold turkey. ' When you say somebody and somebody doesn't want to take drugs and somebody wants to penetrate through, it is just like depression. We take them out even without the knowledge.
YB: And I do not devalue people who drink. People who drink, people who use drugs, out of necessity. It's a psychological need, it is the emptiness in them and if that can be treated right, they can get out of it. Surprisingly, in the drug rehabilitation the most vital point where everybody fails is called 'Cold turkey. ' When you say somebody and somebody doesn't want to take drugs and somebody wants to penetrate through, it is just like depression. We take them out even without the knowledge.
We say, "Well, your depression period is over. "
We say, "Well, your depression period is over. "
They say, "(?) how? "
They say, "(?) how? "
We say, "Do you feel really synchronized in yourself, you need drugs? "
We say, "Do you feel really synchronized in yourself, you need drugs? "
They say, "No, no, what happened to me? "
They say, "No, no, what happened to me? "
Keep it that way.
Keep it that way.
Interviewer: We'd love to share the secret with you.
Interviewer: We'd love to share the secret with you.
in yourself, you need drugs? "
in yourself, you need drugs? "
They say, "No, no, what happened to me? "
They say, "No, no, what happened to me? "
Keep it that way.
Keep it that way.
Interviewer: We'd love to share the secret with you.
Interviewer: We'd love to share the secret with you.
YB: It is, you are what you eat. We have a formula of food, certain combination of herbs. God cures you, doctor diagnoses you, and herbs heal you. So we have certain herbal mixtures which we put in food everyday and feed them. And believe it or not, they come out without any depression. And they love it.
YB: It is, you are what you eat. We have a formula of food, certain combination of herbs. God cures you, doctor diagnoses you, and herbs heal you. So we have certain herbal mixtures which we put in food everyday and feed them. And believe it or not, they come out without any depression. And they love it.
Interviewer: So, but in fact there is a very close affinity between master and disciple or teacher and student when you have people on the drug rehabilitation programs or even people in your foundation Kundalini yoga...
Interviewer: So, but in fact there is a very close affinity between master and disciple or teacher and student when you have people on the drug rehabilitation programs or even people in your foundation Kundalini yoga...
YB: No, people given to us are by the court. Courts decide. You go three years in jail or you go to 3HO center to be cleaned out; choose. And that's how we get people.
Yogi Bhajan：不，交给我们的人是法庭送来的。法庭来决定。你要么去监狱待三年，要么去 3HO 中心把自己清理干净；选吧。我们就是这么得到人的。
Interviewer: And they choose you for the (?).
采访者：他们选你是因为（？）。
YB: Oh! They choose us, yeah. And hardly they have ever come back. They are well established in their life. In Tucson we have a great facility and we get people from the law.
Yogi Bhajan：哦！他们选我们，对。而且他们很少回来过。他们在自己的生活里站稳了脚跟。在图森我们有一个很好的设施，我们从法律那边接人。
Interviewer: Now what else is your foundation is involved in the 3HO foundation.
采访者：那你们的基金会还参与些什么，3HO 基金会。
In Tucson we have a great facility and we get people from the law.
在图森我们有一个很好的设施，我们从法律那边接人。
Interviewer: Now what else is your foundation is involved in the 3HO foundation.
采访者：那你们的基金会还参与些什么，3HO 基金会。
YB: We have businesses, we have corporations. What we do is we take anybody, and figure it out what his potential is. In my words, I like to let people walk on their feet, with their own pride. So basically our people have their own businesses, all sort of businesses, we have a best medical center in Los Angeles, Khalsa. We have builders, construction work, we have factory, bracelets, we have food, all sorts of, we have cookies with herbs and name it, clothing.
Yogi Bhajan：我们有生意，我们有公司。我们做的就是接受任何人，然后弄清楚他的潜力是什么。用我的话说，我喜欢让人用自己的尊严，靠自己的双脚走路。所以基本上我们的人都有自己的生意，各种生意，我们在洛杉矶有最好的医疗中心，Khalsa。我们有建筑商，建筑工程，我们有工厂，手镯，我们有食品，各种各样的，我们有加草药的饼干，凡你能想到的，还有服装。
Interviewer: What you call the people involved in all of these different occupations, are they disciples, devotees, followers, (?)?
采访者：那这些参与各种不同职业的人，你怎么称呼他们，他们是弟子、虔信者、追随者，（？）？
YB: You can call them, some are Sikhs who belong to the religious group. Some are halfway, they love just like a family, friends, they take help, they seek help.
Yogi Bhajan：你怎么叫都行，有些是锡克教徒，属于那个宗教团体。有些是半路来的，他们就像一家人、朋友那样去爱，他们接受帮助，他们寻求帮助。
Our organization is mostly a service organization. We go to churches and tell them how to do things. It's a very success oriented organization which you believe that everybody is potentially a jewel, simply it needs little cutting and polish.
我们的组织主要是一个服务性质的组织。我们去教堂，告诉他们该怎么做事情。这是一个非常以成功为导向的组织，它相信每个人都是一颗潜在的宝石，只是需要一点切割和打磨。
things. It's a very success oriented organization which you believe that everybody is potentially a jewel, simply it needs little cutting and polish.
事情。这是一个非常以成功为导向的组织，它相信每个人都是一颗潜在的宝石，只是需要一点切割和打磨。
Interviewer: So what would we call one of your followers?
采访者：那我们该怎么称呼你的一个追随者？
YB: What he wants to be called. To be very frank. I don't initiate anybody. That's one of the thing. Because in our religion for which I am the head for western hemisphere, it is not supposed to initiation. We don't do that.
Yogi Bhajan：他想被叫什么就叫什么。坦白说。我不点化任何人。这是其中一点。因为在我们这个宗教里——我是西半球的负责人——它是不该有点化的。我们不那么做。
Interviewer: This is the Sikhs you are talking about.
采访者：你说的是锡克教。
YB: And as a yogi, I am a friend and a person, I am just myself. So I have many aspects right in one self.
Yogi Bhajan：而作为一个瑜伽士，我是一个朋友，一个人，我就是我自己。所以我在一个自己里就有很多面向。
Interviewer: I have seen some of your followers with you and you earlier on today and they were all wearing white, is this a special dress for a occasion or you (?) normally wear...?
采访者：我见过你的一些追随者和你在—起，还有今天早些时候，他们都穿着白色，这是某个场合的特殊着装，还是你们（？）平时就穿……？
YB: No, no, no, no it is very healthy to wear cotton and wear white. It's very healthy because...
Yogi Bhajan：不，不，不，不，穿棉的、穿白的非常健康。它非常健康，因为……
Interviewer: In the tropics, yes.
Interviewer：在热带，是的。
YB: No, no, everywhere.
Yogi Bhajan：不，不，到哪里都是。
Interviewer: Everywhere?
Interviewer：到哪里都是？
YB: In Alaska you will find our people wear beautiful white and they are known as white stars in Alaska, and they are very good. In Anchorage you go, we have the biggest center. White contains seven colors of light.
Yogi Bhajan：在阿拉斯加，你会发现我们的人穿着漂亮的白色，他们被称为阿拉斯加的白色之星，他们非常棒。你去安克雷奇，我们有最大的中心。白色包含七种光色。
are known as white stars in Alaska, and they are very good. In Anchorage you go, we have the biggest center. White contains seven colors of light.
被称为阿拉斯加的白色之星，他们非常棒。你去安克雷奇，我们有最大的中心。白色包含七种光色。
Interviewer: Prism of light.
Interviewer：光的棱镜。
YB: And why to go through, this is called color therapy, why not just wear white and wear cotton and be healthy? You know we are healthy, happy, holy people. We are holy because we have nine holes and we have to control them. We are happy because that's our birthright, we are healthy because we know the science.
Yogi Bhajan：那为什么还要费事，这叫做色彩疗法，为什么不干脆穿白色、穿棉布，保持健康？你知道我们是健康、快乐、神圣的人。我们神圣，因为我们有九个孔，我们必须控制它们。我们快乐，因为那是我们与生俱来的权利，我们健康，因为我们懂这门科学。
Interviewer: And holy?
Interviewer：那神圣呢？
YB: Because we have nine holes. Everybody has.
Yogi Bhajan：因为我们有九个孔。每个人都有。
Interviewer: I was thinking of the sanctity of holiness rather than anything else.
Interviewer：我想到的是神圣的那种圣洁，而不是别的什么。
YB: Yeah, because you have to understand our holiness is God's given effect is that we must control what comes through these holes in and what goes out. Mastery of that is the holiness and every person has the right. You must know when you open your mouth what you are speaking, what you are talking, what you are eating, what you are saying, open your eyes, what you are seeing, how you are seeing and how you are thinking you are seeing and how your subconscious is knowing to think how you think.
Yogi Bhajan：对，因为你必须明白，我们的神圣是神所赋予的——那就是我们必须控制从这些孔进来什么、出去什么。掌控这个就是神圣，每个人都有这个权利。你必须知道，当你张开嘴，你在说什么，你在讲什么，你在吃什么，你在说什么，张开眼睛，你在看什么，你是怎么看的，你是怎么以为自己在看的，你的潜意识又是怎么知道你如何思考的。
eyes, what you are seeing, how you are seeing and how you are thinking you are seeing and how your subconscious is knowing to think how you think.
眼睛，你在看什么，你是怎么看的，你是怎么以为自己在看的，你的潜意识又是怎么知道你如何思考的。
Interviewer: Now this leads me almost directly into communication. Could you speak briefly on that before...
Interviewer：这几乎直接把我带到了沟通。你能否先简短地谈一下……
YB: I have done my Ph. D. in communication, I have a degree in psychology of communication and doctorate and communication is a very simple subject in which you must not waste your power and when you speak to a person, just speak where you want to affect. If you want to affect his head, look towards the forehead, if you want to affect his heart, look where it is, and if you want to affect his business profiles then in business profile you have to effectively hit him at the navel point. If you want to have a personality and you want to take, hit him below the belt, if you want to give, hit him above the neck and aim it, it's like archery. It's a very simple thing, you take and (?)
Yogi Bhajan：我拿的是沟通的博士学位，我有沟通心理学的学位和博士，沟通是一门很简单的学问，在其中你绝不能浪费你的力量，当你对一个人说话时，就只说你想产生影响的地方。如果你想影响他的头，就看向额头，如果你想影响他的心，就看向它所在的地方，如果你想影响他的商业规划，那么在商业规划上你就得有效地击中他的丹田。如果你想拥有人格，想要索取，就打他腰带以下，如果你想给予，就打他脖子以上，瞄准它，就像射箭一样。这是件很简单的事，你拿……（？）
and with your archery take the words and arrow and hit at that lotus, that Chakra of that person you want him to get bulled. Zero.
用你的箭术，把话语当作箭，射中那朵莲花，射中那个人的那个脉轮，你想让他被牛顶到。零。
Interviewer: Bull's eye.
采访者：正中靶心。
YB: Bull's eye.
YB：正中靶心。
the words and arrow and hit at that lotus, that Chakra of that person you want him to get bulled. Zero.
把话语当作箭，射中那朵莲花，射中那个人的那个脉轮，你想让他被牛顶到。零。
Interviewer: Bull's eye.
采访者：正中靶心。
YB: Bull's eye.
YB：正中靶心。
Interviewer: Yogiji, it's been very kind of you to come this morning, thank you for elaborating on Tantric yoga and Kundalini yoga, and talking about all the other things that you talked about this morning.
采访者：Yogiji，你今天早上能来真是太好了，谢谢你讲解了谭崔瑜伽和昆达里尼瑜伽，还谈了今天早上你谈到的所有其他事情。
YB: I have relaxed in two days in Trinidad, I enjoyed it, I will be on my way, thank you very much.
YB：我在特立尼达放松了两天，我很享受，我就要上路了，非常感谢。
Interviewer: Thank you so much. Now don't go away because (?) with all our guests.
采访者：太感谢你了。现在别走开，因为（？）和我们所有的嘉宾一起。
YB: (----)
YB：（----）
Interviewer: Thank you very much.
采访者：非常感谢。
YB: We put everything... you are very good.
YB：我们把一切……你很好。
Interviewer: I promised you to talk about Yoga and this morning I have the master of the 3HO foundation for Kundalini Yoga, who is also a master of white Tantric Yoga and he is Yogi Bhajan, who is here this morning to tell us more about it all. Good morning and welcome to Dateline.
采访者：我答应过你要谈瑜伽，今天早上我请来了 3HO 基金会昆达里尼瑜伽的大师，他也是白谭崔瑜伽的大师，他就是 Yogi Bhajan，今天早上他来到这里，要给我们多讲讲这些。早上好，欢迎来到《Dateline》。
YB: Thank you very much.
YB：非常感谢。
Interviewer: Now, Yogi Bhajan, could you tell us the difference between Kundalini and White Tantric Yoga?
采访者：那么，Yogi Bhajan，你能告诉我们昆达里尼瑜伽和白谭崔瑜伽的区别吗？
to Dateline.
来到《Dateline》。
YB: Thank you very much.
YB：非常感谢。
Interviewer: Now, Yogi Bhajan, could you tell us the difference between Kundalini and White Tantric Yoga?
采访者：那么，Yogi Bhajan，你能告诉我们昆达里尼瑜伽和白谭崔瑜伽的区别吗？
YB: Kundalini Yoga is... There are twenty-two types of Yoga's, out of that eight are very majorly known. But in time phase for the householder, we practice Kundalini Yoga. It is just with all the abnormalities of life, you need to be most balanced. So there are seven lotuses in you, the eighth is your aura, so these are energy centers, they have different ways to deal with life. If they are out of balance, then life is out of balance and then you have two brain hemisphere, left is your initial power, right is your projective power, sometime you want to achieve more, rest little or you want to rest a lot and achieve less, so that balances.
YB：昆达里尼瑜伽是……瑜伽有 22 种，其中有 8 种是最广为人知的。但按居家者的时相来说，我们练习昆达里尼瑜伽。生活里有种种不正常，你恰恰需要最为平衡。所以你里面有七朵莲花，第八朵是你的能量圈，所以这些都是能量中心，它们有各自应对生活的方式。如果它们失衡，生活就失衡；你还有两个大脑半球，左脑是你最初的力量，右脑是你的投射力量，有时你想成就更多、休息少一点，有时你想休息很多、成就少一点，这样就平衡了。
power, right is your projective power, sometime you want to achieve more, rest little or you want to rest a lot and achieve less, so that balances.
力量，右脑是你的投射力量，有时你想成就更多、休息少一点，有时你想休息很多、成就少一点，这样就平衡了。
In Kundalini Yoga our ancient sages decided the man has the right to live happy. And they found out the happiness only based on a projectivity in a balanced state. Environmental arts were there and between a negotiation of a person, me and you, we can only negotiate one third of reality, two third is known unknown, so two third can go wrong, anytime. So covering the two third which can go wrong, supporting one third, which we have done right and then balancing life to work out for profit of life, happiness in life, that's called happiness, achievement, fulfillment, that whole science is Kundalini Yoga.
在昆达里尼瑜伽里，我们古代的圣贤认定，人有权利活得快乐。他们发现，快乐只建立在一个处于平衡状态的投射（Projection）上。环境艺术本来就在那里，而在一个人——我和你——的协商之间，我们只能协商现实的三分之一，三分之二是已知的未知，所以三分之二随时都可能出错。于是，覆盖那可能出错的三分之二，支持我们做对了的三分之一，然后平衡生活，让它为生命的利益、生命的快乐而运作，那才叫快乐、成就、满足，那一整门科学就是昆达里尼瑜伽。
Tantric Yoga, your chakras, your lotuses have gone wrong, overwork, abnormalities, sudden death, sadness, disappointment, love affairs, God knows what, whatever and you have become wrong, in your length and breadth, as weaving of the cloth, so you are just upside down. You put it together, stretch the person, fix it, good bye.
谭崔瑜伽（Tantric Yoga），你的脉轮（Chakra）、你的莲花出了偏差，过度劳损、异常、猝死、悲伤、失望、情爱纠葛，天知道还有什么，总之你出了偏差，在你的长和宽里，就像布织歪了一样（原文：as weaving of the cloth，是笔误，实际指就好像布织的一样），你就是整个颠倒过来了。你把它重新拼起来，把人拉伸，修好，再见。
Interviewer: How do you fix it, what, what is...
Interviewer: 你怎么修，什么，什么……
the cloth, so you are just upside down. You put it together, stretch the person, fix it, good bye.
那块布，所以你就是整个颠倒过来了。你把它重新拼起来，把人拉伸，修好，再见。
Interviewer: How do you fix it, what, what is...
Interviewer: 你怎么修，什么，什么……
YB: Well, we teach life forces courses in America, people come at about nine o'clock and they are let off by five o'clock, no pre-requirement is required and they go through certain exercises as we aim like grief, let us get rid of grief. Let us get rid of birth pains, let us get rid of youth age pain, in a maturity of life. Let us get rid of future fears. Let us get rid of inverted sadness which sits with you like heaviness. Then those of subject we cover, in each exercise and in each breathing and stimulate the centers and make a person, by the evening they are...
YB: 嗯，我们在美国教生命力课程，人们大概九点来，五点就走了，没有任何先决条件，他们经过一些练习，我们的目标是像悲伤——让我们摆脱悲伤。让我们摆脱出生的痛，让我们摆脱年轻时代的痛，走向生命的成熟。让我们摆脱对未来的恐惧。让我们摆脱那种倒转的悲伤，它像沉重一样坐在你身上。然后我们涵盖那些主题，在每一个练习、每一次呼吸里刺激那些中心，让人在傍晚的时候……
Interviewer: Quite happy.
Interviewer: 非常快乐。
YB: Yeah.
YB: 是的。
Interviewer: Now, you do this (?) series of exercises, lectures also.
Interviewer: 现在，你做这（？）一系列的练习，也讲课。
YB: It is lecturing, it is, it is just telling them what is going to be and we are telling them what they will go through and telling them to monitor they are going through it and then in end asking them, how they feel, they got rid of the entire load or not. We do accomplish sixty percent in one sitting.
YB: 是讲课，它，它就是告诉他们将会发生什么，我们告诉他们他们将会经历什么，叫他们监测自己正在经历它，最后问他们，感觉怎么样，有没有卸下全部的负担。我们一次课能完成百分之六十。
going through it and then in end asking them, how they feel, they got rid of the entire load or not. We do accomplish sixty percent in one sitting.
经历它，最后问他们，感觉怎么样，有没有卸下全部的负担。我们一次课能完成百分之六十。
Interviewer: You also have quite a few people who are drug addicts referred to you, (?)...
Interviewer: 你也有不少吸毒成瘾的人被转介到你这里，（？）……
YB: We have a drugless drug rehabilitation program in Tuscan, in which that's the only one program in United States which is very successful. Because people who take drugs they feel emptiness in them and they need stimulant from outside, they do not know how to stimulate energy from themself, from the reservoir they can't get it.
Yogi Bhajan：我们在图森有一个不用药物的戒毒康复项目，这是全美国唯一一个非常成功的项目。因为吸毒的人内心感到空虚，他们需要从外面得到刺激，他们不知道如何从自己身上激发能量，从自己的储备里他们取不出来。
Interviewer: There is a question of getting to know the self better and you are offering (?) inside out.
采访者：这里有一个更好认识自己的问题，而您提供的是（？）由内而外。
YB: Oh yes (?), once you know the self, that's not enough, once you know the self and you know how to tap your reservoir and how much you want to confront and how much you want to reserve and in that balance you don't need anything. I mean to say, the famous saying is that, you have all what you have, use it the best you can.
Yogi Bhajan：噢是的（？），一旦你认识了自己，那还不够，一旦你认识了自己，并且知道如何汲取自己的储备，知道你想面对多少、想保留多少，在那个平衡里，你什么都不需要。我的意思是说，有句名言是这么讲的，你拥有你所拥有的一切，把它用到最好。
Interviewer: Now, the foundation school, the 3HO...
采访者：现在，那所基础学校，3HO……
I mean to say, the famous saying is that, you have all what you have, use it the best you can.
我的意思是说，有句名言是这么讲的，你拥有你所拥有的一切，把它用到最好。
Interviewer: Now, the foundation school, the 3HO...
采访者：现在，那所基础学校，3HO……
YB: That's mean healthy, happy and holy. Healthy we are because we want to live, holy we are because we have nine holes and happiness is the right, health is the requirement and holiness is to control our inlet and outlet balance. Against the environments. You have to understand, you can be toppled for anything, you can stumble on anything, it's the conscious control and it is that segment in life, which is required by everybody and that's what we teach normally in United States to all the people, who relate to us.
Yogi Bhajan：那意思是健康、快乐和神圣。我们健康，是因为我们想活；我们神圣，是因为我们有九个孔窍；而快乐是权利，健康是必需，神圣就是控制我们入口和出口的平衡。对抗环境。你必须明白，你可能因为任何事被掀翻，你可能被任何东西绊倒，它是那份有意识的控制，它是生命中那一段，每个人都需要它，而这就是我们通常在美国教的，教给所有和我们有联结的人。
Interviewer: Now perhaps we could move to the Caribbean and the classic island problems where the islands...
采访者：现在也许我们可以转到加勒比地区，以及那些典型的岛屿问题，那里的岛屿……
to all the people, who relate to us.
教给所有和我们有联结的人。
Interviewer: Now perhaps we could move to the Caribbean and the classic island problems where the islands...
采访者：现在也许我们可以转到加勒比地区，以及那些典型的岛屿问题，那里的岛屿……
YB: Yeah, it is called islands psychology, in island psychology, you have the problem because once you see your shores and your borders as the island, then you have to feel that within that you are contained. Contained is not contentment, it turns in the subconscious into psychological terms as what you call it phobia, it's called you are contained, you are, you are put in a pit and then you want to go out. Then the problem will be wherever you want to go out, you also want to see what is coming in, it's, it's called cross phobia. And all islanders have that, that situation.
Yogi Bhajan：是的，它叫做岛屿心理，在岛屿心理里，你会有这个问题，因为一旦你把你的海岸和边界看成岛屿，那你就必须感觉到，在那个范围里你是被围住的。被围住不是满足，它在潜意识里会转成心理学的说法，就是你们所说的恐惧症，它叫做你被围住了，你，你被放进一个坑里，然后你就想出去。那么问题就在于，你想出去到哪里，你也想看到什么进来，它，它叫做交叉恐惧症。而所有岛上的人都有那种情况。
So basically, for a islander the most positive thing is to feel the relax, to see the horizon between sky and land, between water and mountain, very together, in a very jovialness mood, rather than getting into that phobia.
所以基本上，对一个岛上的人来说，最正向的事就是感受那份放松，看着天与地、水与山之间的地平线，紧紧连在一起，带着非常欢快的心情，而不是陷入那种恐惧。
Interviewer: Claustrophobia (?).
采访者：幽闭恐惧（？）。
land, between water and mountain, very together, in a very jovialness mood, rather than getting into that phobia.
陆地，在水与山之间，紧紧连在一起，带着非常欢快的心情，而不是陷入那种恐惧。
Interviewer: Claustrophobia (?).
采访者：幽闭恐惧（？）。
YB: It is, it is, it is sometime which is a, I, I studied and once advised on the situation in Northern Ireland and they asked my opinion on that and I said, it's, it's just a simple problem because within the Ireland you are cut it out, one of you intermix the, make it like, look like, that's what this agreement is about, you know. Ireland can be Ireland and that will cut on lot of violence because it can lead you to lot of drinking, lot of drugs, lot of violence, not that you want it, you do it and that's the problem.
Yogi Bhajan：它是，它是，它有时候是一种，我，我研究过，还曾就北爱尔兰的局势提过建议，他们问我的看法，我说，这，这只是一个很简单的问题，因为在爱尔兰内部你们被切割开了，你们当中的一方与另一方混在一起，把它弄得像，看起来像，这个协议就是关于这个的，你知道。爱尔兰可以是爱尔兰，那会切掉很多暴力，因为它会导致大量酗酒、大量毒品、大量暴力，不是你想要它，而是你做了它，问题就在这儿。
Innocent crime is a tragedy of human life, which, which normally I am trying to get rid of it and leave behind the technology so the people can feel, study and adapt and serve the nations.
无辜的罪行是人类生活的一场悲剧，它，它通常是我努力想摆脱的东西，并把它留在技术背后，这样人们就能感受、学习并适应，去服务各个民族。
Interviewer: Now what about the impact of a student of a teacher on a student, or a master on a disciple, since you are leader of so many?
采访者：那一位老师对学生、或者一位大师对弟子的影响呢，既然你是这么多人的领袖？
YB: Oh, my type of a leader, I have a very three roles to do, one is I am a chief administrator religious authority for Western Hemisphere, that's a religious situation.
Yogi Bhajan：哦，我这种类型的领袖，我有三个角色要做，一个是我担任西半球的首席行政宗教权威，那是宗教层面的事。
a leader, I have a very three roles to do, one is I am a chief administrator religious authority for Western Hemisphere, that's a religious situation.
一位领袖，我有三个角色要做，一个是我担任西半球的首席行政宗教权威，那是宗教层面的事。
Interviewer: Of the Sikhs, (?).
采访者：锡克教徒的（？）。
YB: Of the Sikhs and that's a different role. Second role is that, I am a head of the 3HO foundation, I want everybody to be healthy, happy and holy, you know. That part. Third, I am a educationist, I like to teach walk on their feet with their own pride, I, I am a artist, in a humanitarian living. So, in those three aspects, master today and student is tomorrow's master.
Yogi Bhajan：锡克教徒的，那是另一个不同的角色。第二个角色是，我是 3HO 基金会的负责人，我希望每个人都健康、快乐、神圣，你知道。就是那一部分。第三，我是一个教育者，我喜欢教人们靠自己的双脚走路，带着自己的尊严，我，我是一个艺术家，活在人道里。所以，在这三个面向里，今天的大师就是明天的学生。
So basically what we do is not direct the life of the people or control the life of the people because I feel that's anti-God. I am very, very, settled on it. I feel the God cannot give you anything best than that to make you what He made you in a, God made me what He made me, you can be a human or a person. But when you will try to become a woman, that is where the whole science will play. For me, I can be a person and human but for me to become a man, that the whole science has to play.
所以基本上我们所做的，不是去指引人们的生活或者控制人们的生活，因为我觉得那是反神的。我在这一点上非常、非常坚定。我觉得神给不了你比这更好的东西了，让你成为祂造你时造的那个样子，神把我造成祂造我的样子，你可以是一个人，或者一个个体。但当你试图变成一个女人时，那整个科学就要起作用了。对我来说，我可以是一个个体、一个人，但对我来说要变成一个男人，那整个科学就得起作用了。
Interviewer: (?) question of balance and counter balance?
Interviewer：（？）平衡与反平衡的问题？
I can be a person and human but for me to become a man, that the whole science has to play.
我可以是一个人、一个人类，但对我来说要成为一个男人，整套科学就必须运转起来。
Interviewer: (?) question of balance and counter balance?
Interviewer：（？）平衡与反平衡的问题？
YB: Balance and counter balance, against every odd. You... The simplest law; you have to be even against every odd, period, it's a success story, there cannot be any alternative to it, you have to excel. Your excellence is your right. Play it, why not?
YB：平衡与反平衡，对抗一切不利。你……最简单的法则：面对一切不利，你必须是偶数，就这样，这是成功的故事，没有别的选择，你必须超越。你的卓越就是你的权利。去用它，为什么不呢？
Interviewer: Use it...
Interviewer：用它……
YB: No, but you know phobia fear, tragedies, oh somebody blaming other people, it's, it's just art, it's a deficiency art. Turn this deficiency art into efficiency art, you are excellent. People are poor by choice; not by the will of God.
YB：不，但你知道恐惧症、恐惧、悲剧，哦，有人在怪别人，那只是艺术，那是一种缺陷的艺术。把这种缺陷的艺术转变成效能的艺术，你就是卓越的。人是因选择而贫穷，不是因神的意志而贫穷。
Interviewer: Now, talking about education a little early lead me to communication.
Interviewer：现在，稍微早一点谈到教育，让我想到沟通。
are excellent. People are poor by choice; not by the will of God.
就是卓越的。人是因选择而贫穷，不是因神的意志而贫穷。
Interviewer: Now, talking about education a little early lead me to communication.
Interviewer：现在，稍微早一点谈到教育，让我想到沟通。
YB: Science of communication is very beautiful science in which I have get PhD in psychology of communication and it is the most misused and wasted power. When you speak, you must understand how you are speaking, what you are speaking, maybe choice of words, like an archery, if you want to relieve the pain of the person which is an hah, haha, aim it at his head. If you want to communicate person to person aim it at his heart center, if you want to talk business aim it at the navel point, below belt, go if you want to take.
YB：沟通的科学是一门非常美丽的科学，我在这门科学里拿到了沟通心理学的博士学位，而它是最被滥用、最被浪费的力量。当你说话时，你必须明白你是怎么说的、你在说什么，也许是选词，就像射箭：如果你想解除那个人的痛苦，那是一种哈、哈哈，就对准他的头；如果你想人与人地沟通，就对准他的心轮；如果你想谈生意，就对准他的丹田，腰带以下，想要就拿吧。
And these are very scientific ways of communication not and normally people say, cannon fire, fire and God knows what happens, then later they say, "I said to that person very well. "
这些是非常科学的沟通方式，而不是像人们通常说的炮筒式，开火，天知道会发生什么，然后事后他们说：「我跟那个人说得很好。」
of communication not and normally people say, cannon fire, fire and God knows what happens, then later they say, "I said to that person very well. "
的沟通方式，而不是像人们通常说的炮筒式，开火，天知道会发生什么，然后事后他们说：「我跟那个人说得很好。」
Normally a person receives out of your entire communication, fifteen percent to twenty percent. Forty to sixty percent is unheard or not understood and rest is confused, state of mind. So basically the power of the word is which runs the whole entire universe, the entire world. In the beginning there was a word, word was with God, and word was God, it's true. So if you choose word properly and hit right, with a proper impact, you got it, you got the bull and that is what I teach in universities and that I, that what I am specialist in.
通常一个人从你的整个沟通中接收到的，是百分之十五到百分之二十。百分之四十到六十是没听到或没听懂的，剩下的则是混乱，是一种心智状态。所以根本上，话语的力量是运转整个宇宙、整个世界的力量。起初有道，道与神同在，道就是神，这是真的。所以如果你恰当选词，击得准，带着恰当的冲击，你就得手了，你抓住了那头公牛，这就是我在大学里教的，也是我的专长。
Interviewer: So in fact you lecture at universities as well, I, I find (?) followers of the foundation and in practicing yoga.
Interviewer：所以事实上你也在大学讲课，我，我发现（？）基金会的追随者，也在练习瑜伽。
YB: Oh yeah, this followers are independent, we are very independent organization, we are not be happy. In our organization, it's very reverse, (?) higher you are, humble you are, it's a service organization, it's not, there is no such thing control, animosity, what about me and all that stuff, it's not going on.
YB：哦对，这些跟随者是独立的，我们是一个非常独立的组织，我们不会满意。在我们的组织里，它是反过来的，(?) 你的地位越高，你就越谦卑，它是一个服务组织，它不是，没有支配这回事，没有敌意，什么「我怎么办」之类的东西，这些都不存在。
humble you are, it's a service organization, it's not, there is no such thing control, animosity, what about me and all that stuff, it's not going on.
你的地位越高，你就越谦卑，它是一个服务组织，它不是，没有支配这回事，没有敌意，什么「我怎么办」之类的东西，这些都不存在。
Interviewer: I (?) a quite a few of you are... The people who came with you, wearing white, why is this?
采访者：我 (?) 你们中有不少人……跟你一起来的人，穿白色，这是为什么？
YB: Color therapy, wear white and wear cotton always healthy, where skin breathe, it's a (?) and don't describe (?), otherwise you will get old, (?) faster (?) you, wear lot of (?).
YB：色彩疗愈，穿白色，而且总是穿棉的才健康，让皮肤能够呼吸，它是 (?) 而且不要描述 (?)，否则你会变老，(?) 更快 (?) 你，穿很多 (?)。
Interviewer: (----)
采访者：（----）
YB: Willing a lots of people I live you either you are... hah, you can be, you can controls what (?), (low voice)...
YB：愿意有很多人，我住在你里面，要么你是……哈，你可以是，你可以控制什么 (?)，（低声）……